Refuting Wolfgang Halbig, a Sandy Hook “truther”
A few days ago a reader forwarded me a story about a former police officer and teacher, who “served as an expert in the Columbine and other school shootings”, and is now claiming the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre never happened.
This man, Wolfgang Halbig, released an interview in which he listed numerous pieces of evidence which “prove” the event was fabricated. Halbig is a former state trooper and customs agent, plus a onetime educator and apparently a school safety official in Seminole County, Florida. His claims are inflaming those who already believed Sandy Hook was a hoax and pushing those on the fence into the conspiracy camp.
If Halbig’s bio has been reported correctly, it’s pretty impressive. One would think Halbig knows what he’s talking about. If I hadn’t read his list of supposed holes in the story, I might’ve thought he understood school shootings. I’ve Googled Halbig and seen many websites citing his claims, but no refutation from him; in other words, as far as I can tell he did say the Sandy Hook massacre never happened. If he did say that, he’s an idiot; impressive background or not, Halbig doesn’t seem to know the least bit about the realities of school shootings.
Now, a little about me. I’m not a school shooting expert. But I am a 20 year police officer who spent most of my time on night shift patrol in rough areas. I served several years as an adjunct Active Shooter instructor, teaching other officers how to respond to mass shootings. As an instructor I attended advanced active shooter training and played the role of the suspect in numerous exercises. I’m also a 25 year veteran of the Marine Reserve and Army National Guard, and served in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. I have a pretty good background in tactics and a decent appreciation of the dynamics of mass shootings.
I’m going to address Halbig’s list of supposed Sandy Hook inaccuracies one by one. I’d ask you to consider my points, compare my background with Halbig’s, and decide for yourself if Halbig’s claims hold any water.
HALBIG’S LIST OF CLAIMS, AND MY REFUTATIONS
Point 1: “When the police arrived at Sandy Hook Elementary School (SHES) that morning, they parked ¼ mile from the school’s front door instead of doing what first responders are supposed to do in an active shooter event, which is to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible so as to save as many lives as possible.”
When the official Sandy Hook report was released, I also heard rumors of officers parking a quarter mile away. But some of the responding officers have publicly stated they stopped in the school parking lot, rather than a faraway safe spot.
“They made it in under three minutes, arriving in the parking lot while gunfire could still be heard. ‘I got out of the car and grabbed my rifle and it stopped for a second,’ Officer Chapman said. ‘But then we heard more popping. You could tell it was rifle fire. And it was up so close, it sounded like it was coming from outside. So we were all looking around for someone to shoot back at.’”
Are those officers lying? I highly doubt it. I’ve worked for three police departments, two tiny and one which was among the largest in the country. I’ve also worked with police officers from all over the world as a United Nations police officer in Kosovo. One thing I know about the vast majority of American cops: when shots are being fired, we charge toward them. One of the proudest moments of my police career occurred in Kosovo. A local police officer was shot at a hotel, and frantic radio reports rang out. I sprinted toward the hotel. Officers from some other countries weren’t too eager to approach that hotel, and a few went the other way. But Americans charged straight into the danger, as I’ve seen them do over and over here in America. I don’t believe for a moment that police officers in Newtown, upon hearing reports of a school massacre, all chose to park a safe distance away.
Besides that, the official report says this: “Upon the receipt of the first 911 call, law enforcement was immediately dispatched to the school. It was fewer than four minutes from the time the first 911 call was received until the first police officer arrived at SHES. It was fewer than five minutes from the time the first 911 call was received until the shooter killed himself. It was fewer than six minutes from the time the first police officer arrived on SHES property to the time the first police officer entered the school building.”
Doesn’t sound to me like officers had to run a quarter mile from their cars to the school.
Point 2: “Paramedics and EMTs (emergency medical technicians) were not allowed to enter the school. Instead they were kept waiting in the Sandy Hook fire station nearby, 500 yards down the road from SHES.”
This is kind of a “Wow, no kidding” statement. EMS protocol has traditionally been to remain out of the immediate danger area until it’s been declared safe by law enforcement. So it’s believable that EMS wasn’t allowed into the school until police cleared it. Whether that was a bad call or not (I think it was), it’s not the least bit suspicious.
Point 3: “Trauma helicopters, which can provide the quickest and best medical services in an emergency, were not sent to Sandy Hook. Life Star, the medical helicopter service at Danbury Hospital’s Trauma Center, told Halbig ‘we were never called, never asked.’”
In decades as a cop, having been on many shootings, stabbings and major accidents, I can only recall medical helicopters being called in on a few occasions. Helicopters require cleared landing zones, which often means clearing traffic from vital roads. This can’t always be done in an urban area, or at least it can’t always be done quickly. Transportation by road is sometimes faster than by air, when the time needed to get the helicopters into the air, clear a landing zone and move casualties to the LZ is taken into account. Ground ambulances can usually get casualties to a closeby hospital before a helicopter can be brought in.
And there are only so many helicopters available. Even if they had been called, some (maybe most) of the casualties would have been transported by ground anyway.
Point 4: “Where were the ambulances to transport the wounded to hospitals?”
Didn’t he just answer his own question? The ambulances were at the Newtown fire station, as mentioned in point 2.
Point 5: “Why did police declare 26 people to be dead within the first 11 minutes of the shooting, when according to Connecticut law, only a doctor can declare someone to be legally dead?”
What difference does that make? I’ve been on plenty of scenes where cops declared someone “DRT”, meaning “Dead Right There”. That’s not an official pronouncement, it’s the officer reporting what’s obvious to him or her. I once found a man who had been dead in his house for at least a week, and I reported him dead on the radio. The man was badly decomposed, obviously dead, but someone else still had to make the official pronouncement. On another call we had someone decapitated by an air bag. Yes we called them dead, and yes someone else had to make the official pronouncement. That’s not suspicious, it’s just legal procedure.
Point 6: “Why did the FBI classify the Sandy Hook massacre? This has never been done before. Even the Columbine School massacre was not classified information. To this day, the FBI report on Sandy Hook remains classified information, not releasable to the public.”
I don’t know anything about the FBI’s report. I do know that the FBI’s report isn’t the determining factor in whether or not this incident really happened. Local and state officers responded and investigated, and their report has been released. Some of the responding officers have spoken publicly about the incident. Radio and 911 transcripts have been released. Parents have made statements. So if the FBI doesn’t release their report, suddenly the entire incident was faked?
Point 7: “Why did the State of Connecticut wait ELEVEN whole months to issue its official final report on the Sandy Hook shootings to the American public? Note that the final report does not include the FBI’s still-classified report.”
Why did the investigation take eleven months? Probably because it was extremely complicated, with two murder scenes, one of which was more complex than any those officers had previously encountered. And that each of the twenty-seven murders had to be individually and exhaustively detailed. And that there was no rush to finish, because there was nobody alive to prosecute, so no concern about a “speedy trial”. And that the investigators knew their report would be torn apart by legions of “truthers” intent on exploiting anything from typographical errors to 30-second timeline mistakes.
So officers took a long time to issue a report on one of the worst tragedies America has ever experienced? It’s a conspiracy! And what would have happened if they had issued the report quickly? “Truthers” would have considered that evidence the entire incident was pre-planned, with the report written beforehand.
Point 8: “Police transmissions don’t lie because they are made by sworn and trained law enforcement officers. On the morning of Dec. 14, 2012, recorded police transmissions said ‘We have multiple weapons inside the [SH] classroom — a rifle and a shotgun.’ But nobody could find the shotgun in the school. Instead, a shotgun was found in the black Honda parked outside the school.”
Oh, brother. This statement makes me question Halbig’s exalted background as a police officer. Any cop who has been on more than one dangerous, adrenaline-charged scene knows officers make mistakes. Suspects are misidentified. People see things that aren’t really there. Cops call out bad directions (I was famous for that). Someone yells something that turns out to not be true and others repeat it. How many officers have reported seeing a weapon, suspicious object, suspicious person or whatever, and later found out they were wrong? Does anyone recall the search for the nonexistent third suspect at the North Hollywood Shootout?
A friend of mine arrived on a disturbance one night. Within seconds of arriving he was on the radio saying, “We really need an ambulance. I have a guy here with his eyeball hanging out, I think he’s been shot in the head.” When I arrived the ambulance was leaving, just as officers entered an apartment searching for the suspect. One of the officers had a shotgun. We found the suspect, and determined he had kicked the victim repeatedly in the head with cowboy boots. No gun was involved.
I went to the hospital to check on the victim. The paramedics who transported him not only told the emergency room staff that the victim had been shot in the head, but that “shots were still being fired when we were leaving the scene.” When I found the victim in a shock room, a doctor was standing over him explaining to a group of doctors in training, “Looks like the entry wound is here and exit is here. We’re going to treat him with [etc. etc.]”. I told the doctor he hadn’t been shot, he had been kicked in the head. The doctor was surprised. Later he told me I was right, there was no gunshot wound. And what the officer thought was an eyeball was actually a flap of forehead skin that had been torn free and was hanging over the victim’s face.
When I talked to the paramedics later, it turned out one of them had spread the “they were shooting as we left” story. He just got scared; he had a patient who looked like he had been shot, he saw officers with pistols and a shotgun going into an apartment, and perceived something that simply didn’t happen. Paramedics are just as professional as cops, just as interested in determining facts. But this one made a gigantic mistake, which was then repeated by several other people including a doctor. Professionals screw up sometimes.
I haven’t heard the radio traffic about two weapons, but if it happened, so what? I’m not the least bit surprised an officer called out something that turned out to be incorrect. It happens all the time. And it’s usually a result of adrenaline, fear, confusion, conflicting witness reports and everything else that cops encounter at high-stress scenes. If Halbig doesn’t know that, then I suspect that during his time as a “cop” he rode a desk far more than a patrol car.
Besides that, it’s pretty damn ridiculous for Halbig to cite the professionalism of police officers while simultaneously accusing every police officer involved in the Sandy Hook investigation of being part of this “conspiracy”.
Point 9: “At 9:45 AM that day, a police officer found a surviving kindergarten-aged girl in the hallway. The officer sent her back into Room 8 — a crime scene with students and teachers shot dead. What police officer would do that?”
Probably an officer who thought, “The room we just searched is clear, but the rest of the school isn’t. I don’t have extra people around to guard this girl or take her to safety. And there may be a suspect still loose in the school. So I should send her back into a safe room, and report her location on the radio.” Ordering her back into that room was probably the best bad option out of a list of bad options.
This comment reminds me of a debate I had before I deployed to Iraq. According to traditional military doctrine, you never, under any circumstances, evacuated a wounded soldier with a dead soldier. In the early years of the Iraq War some soldiers tried to hold on to that doctrine. But it didn’t always make sense. If a Humvee was hit by an IED and all the crewmen were killed or wounded, and they were under small arms fire, it wouldn’t make sense to have other soldiers make multiple trips into the kill zone when they can evacuate everyone at once. You make one trip in, load everyone you can, and get out. Sometimes war just sucks, and you have to do what you have to do.
In active shooter situations, we expect to step over the dead and ignore wounded who are screaming in agony and begging for help. We can expect some of those wounded to be women and children. The first officers on scene have to focus on finding the shooter and stopping the killing; if that means we have to send a little girl into a room full of dead people because it’s the only safe place, that’s what we have to do. In a situation where everything sucks, sometimes we have to make the least sucky decision. That’s the brutal reality.
Point 10: “Similarly, that morning, two Connecticut state troopers entered Room 10 and found an unharmed boy hiding in the bathroom. The troopers ordered the boy to stay in the room — a room with dead people. ‘That’s not police protocol.’”
See my above comment. Sure, that’s not protocol. So what? Does Halbig, with his alleged police background, think cops or anyone else always follow protocol? Amazingly enough, sometimes people don’t exactly follow the training they’ve received. I’m sure everyone reading this would be shocked – shocked! – to hear that teenagers still drive like idiots even after being taught not to. Or that soldiers don’t always hit their targets even after extensive marksmanship training. Or that cops, in the most terrifying, intense, chaotic, confusing scene they’ve ever been on, when they’re experiencing survival stress reactions like tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, time speeding up or slowing down, enhanced visual acuity and loss of manual dexterity, might not follow their training to the letter.
Cops are human. I can pretty much guarantee that none of officers at Newtown had responded to anything like the Sandy Hook massacre before. In the heat of the moment, they didn’t exactly follow protocol. Surprised? Me neither.
Point 11: “’Having investigated and given expert testimony on many school shootings, Halbig says ‘I know what tears look like.’ But the parents of slain Sandy Hook children, as we’ve noted here on FOTM, did not cry. (In the now famous case of Robbie Parker, the father of allegedly slain 6-year-old Emilie, he went from laughing and joking to pretending to choke back tears in the blink of an eye.)”
No joke? Not a single parent of a murdered child from Sandy Hook cried? Who the hell are these people then?
And I’d like to know how Halbig or anyone else knows the parent mentioned above was “pretending to choke back tears”. I’ve been around plenty of family members of murder victims, and it’s not unusual for them to go through intense mood swings.
Point 12: “Sandy Hook’s medical examiner Dr. Wayne Carver refused to let the parents see the bodies of their slain children, and instead gave them photos of the bodies, which is ‘unheard of.’ Halbig knows about the inconsolable grief of parents and is himself a parent. Parents whose children had been shot dead ‘would kick the door down’ demanding to see the bodies.”
I’ve never been on a scene where family members were allowed to see the bodies of murder victims. When the bodies are still where they fell, the area around them needs to remain as undisturbed as possible in order to preserve evidence. Until a body is examined and autopsied, the body itself is evidence that needs to be preserved. People not involved in the investigation aren’t allowed to see murder victims at will, they generally won’t see the body until it’s released to a funeral home after the autopsy.
And reasonable people don’t go kicking doors down to see dead bodies. Yes, I’ve been involved in a murder investigation where a mob did try to reach a dead body at an emergency room, and I know of another case where a mob chased a hearse with a dead accident victim to a funeral home. Neither of those cases involved reasonable people. I’ve been on many other murder scenes where family members patiently followed our every instruction, even if they were distraught.
Point 13: “Why was Sandy Hook Elementary School torn down? This is not the case with any of the other schools where shootings had taken place, including Columbine School.”
In this case, the community decided they didn’t want to continue using the school where 20 children and 6 educators were murdered. I don’t find that particularly surprising. Columbine High School wasn’t torn down, but its library, where the majority of victims died, was walled off.
Point 14: “Who installed the new security system at SHES? This should be a matter of public record.”
If it was a contract made by the city, then I imagine it is a matter of public record. What difference does that make? The security system didn’t enable or stop the massacre, and the school’s locked doors were an easily surmountable obstacle to Lanza. If we don’t know who installed the security system, does that signify something?
Point 15: “The shooting-to-death of 26 people would leave 45-60 gallons of blood. Who cleaned it up? What biohazard company was hired to clean the crime scene?”
Wait…what? According to medicinenet.com, a 150-pound body contains approximately 5.5 quarts of blood. With 26 victims that’s 143 quarts. Four quarts make a gallon, so 143 quarts of blood equals 35.75 gallons. And that’s if they were all adults. Children’s bodies hold less blood.
But that doesn’t matter, because when people are shot to death all their blood doesn’t automatically drain from their bodies. Halbig has either never been on a shooting murder scene or he’s completely forgotten what they look like. People bleed out because they have massive injuries and their hearts pump blood out from those injuries. When the heart stops pumping, the blood loss stops. I’ve seen some big pools of blood, but other than in a few serial murderer cases never heard of a murder victim being totally drained of blood.
Yes, that would have been a hell of a mess to clean up, even without the mythical “45-60 gallons of blood”. Was it cleaned up afterward? I don’t know. The school was never reopened, so did it need to be cleaned?
Point 16: “Why is there not even one lawsuit by a Sandy Hook parent against SHES for negligence? Halbig has never ever seen a school shooting without parents suing the school for negligence.”
Is it possible the parents really don’t blame the school for the mentally ill murderer who shot his way through locked doors, killed educators who tried to save their children, then murdered as many people as he could before shooting himself?
Point 17: “Why are there so many fund-raisers for the Sandy Hook shootings? Halbig: ‘I’ve never seen so many fund-raisers’ in the case of Sandy Hook. One fundraising alone, by United Way, netted $17 million, from which ‘every [SH] parent got a big chunk of money.’”
Okay. People donated funds to assist families whose children were brutally murdered. Obviously the incident never happened, because the United Way and others raised money. This proves that United Way was involved in the conspiracy.
I’m just not seeing a reason to throw out a conspiracy flag because Americans raised money to help families who had just suffered unimaginable tragedy.
Point 18: “Alleged shooter Adam Lanza, 20, is said to have Asperger syndrome — a high-functioning (in academics) form of austism. Halbig points out, however, that like those with autism, children with Asperger have ‘very very poor motor skills’ and ‘very poor muscle tone.’ How did Asperger-afflicted Adam Lanza with ‘very poor muscle tone’ carry a rifle, a shotgun, a handgun, and bullets? How did Asperger-afflicted Adam Lanza with ‘very very poor motor skills’ shoot 26 people dead — not wounded — in less than five minutes, firing one bullet roughly every two seconds?”
Unfortunately, I know a lot about autism. My youngest son is moderately autistic. Anyone who thinks everyone on the autism spectrum is affected the same doesn’t understand autism. Yes, some people with autism have poor muscle tone and poor motor skills. That doesn’t mean they can’t operate a weapon. My five year old son could probably hold and fire a rifle (his motor skills are just fine, by the way). There is no reason to believe Lanza was so weak physically that he couldn’t operate a rifle, or carry spare ammunition.
And does Halbig, who is supposed to be such an expert on school shootings, really think anyone needs real weapon-handling skills to murder a bunch of unarmed children? All they need to do is operate the weapon. Unarmed children, especially kindergarteners, aren’t going to do anything more than run or hide. Many would probably freeze in disbelief. Unarmed adults aren’t real hard to kill either, as we’ve seen in many active shooter incidents. Shooting defenseless, terrified people at close range doesn’t require Delta Force skills or even average physical strength.
Besides that, we already know children with little strength can operate an “assault rifle”. We’ve seen pictures and videos of it.
Halbig’s conclusions: “’In my professional opinion [as a school safety consultant], I suspect Sandy Hook was a scripted event that took place, in the planning for two or 2½ years.’…Halbig does not believe any child was killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School.”
Halbig sounds like a typical “truther”; he assumes our government, the same government absolutely incapable of even putting a health care website together, can pull off a gigantic conspiracy requiring thousands of willing participants. And these participants wouldn’t all be shadowy, ghostlike federal government Jason Bourne spies, either. Local cops and firefighters, the very people who serve and live in the small community where the massacre was “staged”, would have to willingly lie to the entire nation about it. Children who attended the school would have to lie. All the teachers would have to lie. Local officials would have to willingly play along with a narrative they know is false. People who live near the school would have to lie about hearing gunfire and having children knocking on their doors asking for help. And all these various disparate people, all the cops, firefighters, paramedics, doctors, neighbors, parents, reporters, all the thousands of people associated with the incident, are all in on the conspiracy? They were all part of this “scripted event”, they all knew in advance it was fake? Or did they spontaneously jump into the conspiracy at the first opportunity?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure many people did immediately recognize an opportunity to exploit the tragedy for political gain. Some of them doubtless believe in the morality of their cause, some others probably see it as a way to consolidate their own or their party’s power. But exploiting a tragedy isn’t the same thing as faking it.
The bottom line for me is that I don’t believe a bunch of regular, everyday Americans are lying about this. Why would they? Why would guys just like the cops I’ve served with for decades, teachers like my mom, sister and wife, and paramedics like the guys I’ve seen frantically trying to save strangers on many scenes, willingly lie about this? According to Halbig and every truther who agrees with him, not a single child died at Sandy Hook that day. So every cop on that scene lied about dead children they knew weren’t there. Every paramedic who claimed to have treated a victim knows there were no victims. Every neighbor who reported hearing gunfire knows not a shot was fired. Everyone who worked at Sandy Hook, every student there, knows nobody was murdered. But they’re all in on the lie anyway. Because they all passionately want gun control. Or something like that.
Halbig is reportedly going to travel to Newtown himself, so he can ask questions “eyeball to eyeball”. I’d highly suggest he carry a first aid kit. Because if I had lost a son or daughter at Sandy Hook, and some “truther” came around accusing me of lying about the brutal murder of my own child, I know exactly how I’d react.
Chris Hernandez is a 20 year police officer, former Marine and currently serving National Guard soldier with over 25 years of military service. He is a combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan and also served 18 months as a United Nations police officer in Kosovo. He writes for BreachBangClear.com, Iron Mike magazine and has published two military fiction novels, Proof of Our Resolve and Line in the Valley, through Tactical16 Publishing. He can be reached at chris_hernandez_author@yahoo.com or on his Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/ProofofOurResolve).
Filed under: Uncategorized | 941 Comments
Tags: conspiracy, hoax, sandy hook, truthers
chrishernandezauthor 
I wish you did not work for the gov
I wish you would explain your comment.
Argyle8585@yahoo.com
Ok,there’s certin things we belive in life only based on what someone else has told us,for all we know out own parents are not truly our parent,now with that said stop calling people who have a question crazy,if you only ever listened to cbs news or abc we would belive that lee harvey oswald killed jfk,listen to your heart,honestly would you let geane rosen watch your kids?or does your heart say there’s not something wrong with this picture,see most peole come hear thinking your going to show someone one fact and its going to change there mind,when you need to lay a ground work first of how something like this is possiable, cia op mocking bird,op northwoods,read that and just replace the word cuba with iraq and see if it sounds familiar,now with that said,there’s questions and I or anyone else who has questions is not crazy
No. I don’t believe 2+2=4 “only because someone told me”, I believe it because it makes sense. I wouldn’t believe 2+2=5 even if someone told me, because that doesn’t make sense. I don’t believe the official account of the SH massacre because that’s what I’ve been told, I believe it because it makes sense. I don’t believe the ridiculous conspiracy theories about SH because they make no sense at all.
I’m a 100% certain Sandyhook and 9-11 were staged events..I’m 100% certain you are a shill for our Gangster, sock puppet of the New World Order psychopath crew. Wolfgang is a truther…he speaks the truth…Not one so called victim was seen dead..It was a FEMA drill…One father..a crisis actor was caught on video playing 2 parts…The grieving father and a Swat team member…! You are either 50 shades of ignorant or on the payroll.
“God, I have but one request. When people go insane and become conspiracy theorists, can’t you make their ability to use the internet the first thing to go?”
That’s already been debunked. repeating a falsehood over and over does not make it true.
https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-sandy-hook-dad-dave-wheeler-caught-in-swat-uniform-on-day-of-shooting.t7123/
Amen. Weak arguments-your not fooling me. What about no video of a mass evacuation of 600 or so kids, no handicap parking spaces for school, why were there porta potties, a check in sign, pizza, bottled water, Xmas trees all present shortly after the event? I could go on and on.
Ditto all that..and I recall the announcement of the shooting before it occurred. So many details point to a phony FEMA drill…People going around in circles at the Fire station…in one door out another and then back in the door same door again. Homes given to the locals for next to nothing…a lot of payoffs and a new school.
CAN YOU POST JUST 1 VIDEO OF 1 PERSON WALKING IN CIRCLES IN 1 DOOR AND OUT ANOTHER , , THAT SHOULD BE EASY FOR YOU TO DO . ALL WE NEED IS 1
Add to that that it can’t be looped. I’ve seen videos purporting to show this, and they have been looped. That’s cheating. 🙂
Do you have a special station that you hear voices and announcements on? Thats a whole new part of your story and if you are hearing Voices you need to worry about more than pizza and porta potties. If you truly believe that all those involved are capable of keeping a secret then you have far more trust in humans than i do. And if you really believe you heard an announcemt before the incident you are super special. Bottom line –see a doctor or get off the internet , please.
Dave, Did you read the article? Chris already explained those things. If you choose not to accept those explainations, that’s nobody’s problem but your own.
But I will address a few of those things anyway.
After the shooting, the school was a crime scene. The authorities could not just let every Tom, Dick and Harry wander around it without accounting for them, hence, the sign telling people to sign in.
The police, EMT’s medical examiners, fire department and media were there working for long hours and were not necessarily free to leave at any time while doing their jobs. Like everyone else, they needed to eat, drink and use the bathroom. That’s why they had pizza and water. That’s why they had porta-potties. They could not use the bathrooms in the school because it was a crime scene and the facilities in the nearby fire station could not accommodate that many people.
You don’t have to accept those answers, but if you don’t, that’s your problem, not mine, not Chris’s.
I don’t see how anybody could stand up for the Sandy Hook lie. Do you not understand that they withheld and destroyed evidence while in the meantime changing laws vital to transparency in the operation of a free society? Nothing you could say could convince me that this thing was anything but a commercial designed to brainwash the country.
You got one thing right. Nothing will convince you SH happened. Not evidence, not logic, not reason, not the words of people who were there. You’re sure it never happened and nothing will ever change your mind. That’s why nobody should waste their time trying to reason with a conspiracy theorist. The only thing that works on you people is publicly ridiculing you until you go away.
What she actually meant was that there actually is nothing that you could say that would be factual, evidentiary, logical, unbiased, or be uncollaborative testimony. And THAT is why she, and any sane person, would never believe the fairy tale about a school that closed at the end of 2007.
Uh huh. Newtown only had four elementary schools. Once SH shut down, the city lost 25% of its elementary capacity. This would have had a noticeable effect in a small city, and one group of residents who would have noticed is the National Sport Shooting Foundation, which is based in Newtown. So I guess you conspiracy geniuses are now going to accuse the NSSF of conspiring with the federal government, local law enforcement, local EMS, local hospitals, local and national media, state law enforcement, area funeral homes and morticians, and thousands of local residents, to fake a massacre in order to confiscate everyone’s guns.
Dumbasses.
So basically, crazy is the new sane.
if the school closed in the end of 2007 as you claimed , why would they close it in the middle of the school year ? , if the school was closed in 2007 , why were there posters in the schools lobby that coincide with events mention in the SANDY HOOK CONNECTION for DEC. 2014 ? If the school closed in 2007 , why are there photos of events that happen in 2012 in the schools web page ? if the school closed in 2007 , why are there photos in the principals twitter account of dated events that are also mention in the SANDY HOOK CONNECTION ? Why are there photos of books at the school that wee publish in 2011 if the school was closed in 2007 ?,, you can claimed anything you want to ,but you should be able to back it up with FACTS , you have NOTHING to show that you know what you are saying , It’s been 3 years and what have your kind proven ? the answer is NOTHING , Everything your kind has come up with has been debunked !!!
You apparently are ignorant of certain very salient facts, -facts which lead any sane person to the conclusion that a very elaborate scam was devised and executed with at least a year or more of preparation to make it believable, including the State legislature, but sloppiness resulted in that aim failing when intelligent people began to see many problems with the official narrative.
The school’s website had a normal, expected flow of visitors until January of 2007 when it dried up completely. That is a fact that was discovered by a search of the Wayback Machine (the internet archive of all websites).
It contains, or contained (depending on whether or not it has been scrubbed, as have other incriminating webpages of the past, as I’ve discovered in regard to my own surprising discoveries regarding the truth about Obama’s eligibility to be President) showing the record of all hits to the website, and they essentially ended in Dec. of 2007.
That indicates that the school failed an important health inspection and had to be closed. That is why it was available for the “drill” that became a national scam, and could then be bulldozed in its entirely, not just one classroom of “carnage”.
What was the pay-off for Newtown? MONEY!!! and lots of it!! Fifty Million dollars for a brand new school. Millions and millions of dollars to the first responders’ departments, to schools, to government, to the people who knew the truth and were a part of the scam. Millions in charitable donations for the “families” and those “effected”, with webpages regarding the “tragedy” appearing on the internet days before the “tragedy”.
Nothing went to those who were bamboozled like the rest of the nation.
The scam was so perfect (almost) because it was of such a Hitlerian, audacious, unimaginable scale that the mind of normal people could never imagine that such a horrific scam could even be contemplated, much less carried out. Thus, no doubting = no questioning = believability.
As for the false straw man of soooooo many people being “in” on it, that is asinine! Only those who needed to be on the inside were on the inside, the rest were either believers, or doubters who knew they better keep their mouths shut when government commits a betrayal of the nation on such a scale.
But to the god-less perpetrators, truth is irrelevant, honesty is unimportant, only the “ends” matter, and getting guns out of the hands of the People, was the HIGHEST GOOD they could imagine and work toward, by any means necessary, in order to **save millions of lives in the long run**.
It was all for “the Greater Good”, who could argue with that? Not like-minded socialists and secular humanists.
If I believed in a god, I would have only one prayer:
“Please Lord, I beg of you just one thing. When someone becomes so paranoid and delusional they actually go insane, make sure the first thing they lose is the capability to get on the internet.”
Arnash, since all you’re doing is claiming “it must be this!” and “there’s no other explanation!”, please be gone of this site. Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. I’m not banning you, but I’m tired of my site being a place for delusional lunatics to scream “WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!” from their mom’s basement. So I’m not going to waste time with any more of your stupid comments unless you present some actual E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E.
Buh bye.
P.S. Wayland, stop trying to out-stupid your ideological compatriot Arnash. If you’re competing for the Who’s The Biggest Fool award, you’ll just have to accept a tie.
“my own surprising discoveries regarding the truth about Obama’s eligibility to be President)”
Sweetie, you do realize that it wouldn’t matter if Barack Obama had been born in whatever place birthers believe he was born. His mother was an American citizen, so is he. Also, the long-form certificate of live birth issued by the state and county of birth is the document one must have to get a passport or (more importantly) get into Little League Baseball. I know both of these facts first hand. The little birth certificate that hospitals issue is not considered authoritative for more rigorous citizenship proof.
Re, Sandy Hook: In order for an SH hoax to work, yes, everyone even tangentially involved would have to have been approached and asked to buy into said hoax for the simple reason that Newtown is not a closed movie set. It is an open town where people have hundreds of connections with other people who live within and outside the area. So it’s not enough to have the families of the kids buy into it—all of their relatives, friends and other contacts would also have to buy in.
As I’ve said elsewhere (repeatedly) all of the communications with the “conspirators” would have to be undertaken in some way that would leave no trail. That means no phone calls, no emails, certainly nothing written. It is not feasible in the real world, to pull this off.
Besides which there are many truly honest people for whom no amount of money would be enough to buy complicity ESPECIALLY IF THEY WERE GUN OWNERS. And there are many gun owners in the Newtown area. The co-conspirators would have to have been vetted by ESP to determine that they were all avid gun control extremists and could be safely approached before any physical contact could be made. Otherwise, a single dissenter could give up the whole gig. This is by no means a safe bet in the town that is the HQ of the National Shooting Sports Foundation.
Your “salient facts” aren’t. They are red herrings which you have chosen to believe because reality is more painful. It’s unthinkable and you don’t want to think it. I get that. But while you’re entitled to your opinion of the President or liberals or gun violence activists, you are not entitled to your own reality. We all must deal with the same one.
Here, I have to note, that among SH Truthers, there is not even agreement on what the “evidence” you cite shows. In other words, you are not all even dealing with the same reality within your own numbers. If “salient facts” are that malleable, then I suggest that the problem is one of interpretation and intent.
OK, let’s say you live next door to one of the cops, EMTs or teachers who were at Sandy Hook that day. You live next door to them but you’re not close friends. You mind your business and they mind theirs. You talk briefly on occasion but that’s about it. One day you notice they’re driving a car they can’t afford on a police officer, EMT or teacher’s salary. All of a sudden their kids are going to expensive private schools and they’re taking vacations that they could never afford before this. I’m sure you’d find that suspicious. What keeps you from going to the local TV station or paper or New York Times or whatever? What would it take to buy your silence?
See, for the hoax to work, it’s not enough to pay off or threaten everyone who knew about it. You’d have to pay off or threaten everyone who knows someone who knew about it.
Thanks, Steve. You nailed it.
130,000 to 300,000 people were imployed to work on the Manhattan Project from 1939 to 1946, the New York Times was oblivious to the fact….the Gulf of Tonkin incident occurred in 1964, Robert McNamera admitted it never happened in 2003, thousands of next door neighbour ‘s knew…..USS Liberty was attacked by the Israeli Air Force in 1967, to this day questions are not being answered…..there are 51 other cases of government ” false flages” world wide that were kept secret, even next door neighbor’s had difficulty in reporting suspicious acts ……” The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out ( or fake) acts of terror. The public will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened”….. Joseph Stalin.
The Manhattan Project involved a group of carefully vetted professionals and they only had to keep it secret for a finite amount of time. If Sandy Hook were faked, it would involve many more people, including children and all of them would have to take it to their graves. There’s no way that would work.
The Manhattan Project also took place in a secluded location before almost the entire population carried cameras and had access to the internet.
That, too.
A group of hundreds of thousand professionals eh?….. Bullshit!….what about the other 52 false flags ( those we know about)…..your saying it can’t be done, when history says it can.
Bullshit? That’s it? That’s all you’ve got? Several people gave you real-world-based, rational, logical, and logistical reasons why your comparing SH to MP was absurd. Just go with it. It won’t make you less of a person to say, “Yeah, you’re right. That comparison doesn’t work.”
The other “false flags” you’ve mentioned have the same basic issues—isolation from anyone who could or would report them. You can’t count on the people involved in a SH “hoax” or the people who knew the people or the people who knew the people who knew the people keeping mum about someone approaching them to enlist them in such a hoax.
Please, Cheech, this is real life—not an episode of the Flash or Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I watch TV, too, and often when these big conspiracy episodes come on, I enjoy them, but I have to willingly suspend my disbelief because in reality, someone would notice the villain’s crew moving in next door or wonder why so many high school students were disappearing on a regular basis.
I’m working on a techno-thriller novel right now and I can tell you that even though I’ve put the paramilitary overreach in the middle of a wilderness area, I KNOW that the sort of secrecy I’m asking my readers to accept is impossible.
how many of those hundreds of thousands were teenagers with social media at their fingertips? , , how many of those teenagers partied and never mention anything ?, how many never got angry with their parents and posted the hoax ,? why is there nothing from any child mentioning anything about a hoax , it’s been three years and not one word from any angry, drunk, person , there is nothing on twitter, facebook , you tube or any other social media format
Cheech22, are you serious? You talk as if nothing’s changed in the world since the mid-20th century.
The Manhattan Project took before television was even a day to day reality in most homes and news reporting was done by professionals. Unlike Sandy Hook, it also took place in the middle of nowhere. And there wasn’t an anti-nuclear organization embedded in the middle of the neighborhood.
In short, isolation was what allowed the Manhattan Project to take place in relative secrecy. Tonkin, likewise, took place in isolation. There were no paparazzi, no cell phones, no social media, no viral videos, not even an internet. We’re not talking apples and oranges here, more like apples and snow globes—Newtown being the snow globe. People were far more isolated from what was happening outside their own tiny bubble of life in the early to mid-20th century.
Now there are cameras on every phone, instant connectivity, viral videos and a far more aware populace—for the most part. It’s hard for a public figure to have a private conversation without someone recording it and popping it up on Twitter or Instagram for everyone to see.
Sandy Hook is completely unlike the Manhattan Project in two critical areas: it took place in the middle of a living community and it took place at a time when everyone can record newsworthy material. If you were prepared to be objective, you’d recognize that technological advances (and location) make the sort of secrecy necessary to the Manhattan Project impossible.
That an the existence, in Newtown, of the headquarters of a pro-gun organization.
Oh, please do explain how thousands of people that would have been involved in the “hoax” have managed to keep their mouths shut for 3 years?
How do you know they kept their mouth shut? Because the the information didn’t trickle down to you
You OS’ers assume the legacy media tells you all the relevant information you need to know.
the alt media proves otherwise.
Read back up the thread. The Sandy Hook conspiracy theory fails on purely logistical terms. Everyone living and working in the township (not to mention their relatives coming into town for the holidays) AND the members of the National Sports Shooting Foundation which is headquartered in Newtown would have to be in on the hoax. By what mechanism could their agreement be assured?
There were gun owners living in Newtown. Would you suggest that somehow they were bribed or threatened to go along with a hoax? It’s difficult to control information getting out of a closed environment like a movie set. Do you really think that there’s someway the government could have approached and won the approval of everyone in Newtown who might possibly be connected to the school and its families in any way that would have been 1) timely, 2) feasible, 3) logistically possible and 4) completely untraceable?
If a member of the NSSF was approached via this über secret method would they have said nothing to no one?
What you’re not taking into account—besides the logistics of the situation and human nature—are the connections between human beings in a community. They have connections at work, at church, at schools, at commercial businesses, clubs and other associations they participate in.
There are a myriad investigative reporters out there who would have raised the alarm if anything seemed amiss and they would have worried it like a bone until they got some attention. That didn’t happen.
I’m a writer. It’s my job to figure out how things like this could happen in the real world and what you’re proposing couldn’t happen without a complete suspension of reality. In a novel, no one would believe it and with good reason.
E, are you saying that there are credible reports on “alternative media” of people who were involved in the “hoax: and they came forward and spilled the beans? Do you have any links to those reports?
If it really were proven to be a hoax it would not just be known to you and other like-minded wack jobs. Everyone would know about it. I’d know about it. Chris would know about it. Everyone would.
It would have been all over the news, not just alternative outlets, but every TV network, radio station, newspaper and news web site in the world. There’s no way they could not have reported it because it would have been the single biggest story in human history. The reporters who broke the story would earn Pulitzers. President Obama would have been impeached and removed from office (the first time that would have ever happened to a President). Everyone involved would be in prison.
It’s been more than seven years since that tragic day. None of those things happened.
Conspiracy fact not theory…Your a minimum wage shill…You trust our Gov. that’s spraying us with chemtrail poison…setting up FEMA camps by the 100’s. for us not illegals..Uses the FBI, CIA, IRS, BLM and other agencies to go after Conservatives…Gives Billions to our enemies …You ignorant Treasonous, 50 shades of ignorant sock puppet.
Thank you for conceding the argument. When you start calling people names, it’s tantamount to saying, “Hey, I got nothing, so I’m going to insult you now.”
I don’t own a minimum wage shill and if I did, what about it?
Unless you meant “you’re a minimum wage shill” in which case, I have a hard time taking you seriously if you don;t know the difference between you’re and your.
If the government is spraying us with chemtrail posion, they’re poisoning themselves because they have to breathe the same air as everyone else.
Where are all these FEMA camps and how many people are in them?
Please tell me the exact location of any FEMA camp set up in massachusetts? And whether or not it is for illegal aliens. I keep hearing that claim and ALL these people are being put into them , but i (in all my travels) still have not seen one, any signage for one, or ALL people being bussed into them. I am super curious and would love to see it with my own eyes. Thanks!
Robsurfin, I’m half-convinced you don’t actually believe any of the things you post—in part because you try so hard to cram as many conspiracy theories into your comments as you can. I think you’re yanking our collective chain.
But, in the event, that’s not the situation here are two questions for you:
1) Who is The Government that wants to put “us” in FEMA camps?
2) Why would this single-minded Government want to put “us” in FEMA camps? What benefit would They derive from this incredibly difficult and expensive process?
Subpoena every Porta Potti firm for 30 miles around and find out which had order to supply Sandy Hook and what date!
2014 is suppose to be 2012
brian: to answer your question, “why is there nothing from any child mentioning anything about a hoax?” A child appearing on the Dr. Oz show after the SH shooting stated on air that “it was a drill” while Oz was trying to coach his responses. Also I found it odd ( and illegal) that CT PD pronounced all the children dead but don’t have that authority and it’s obvious from the total lack of blood that not one officer initiated CPR on any children or allowed any EMT’s to perform it either, how strange! And the sign reading “Everyone Must Check In” is a sign used during a drill and not one you would see at a real time event. I am an RN from CT who studied the laws regarding the SH shooting and have serious doubts about the official report, especially after hearing from Wolfgang Halbig.
Jesus Christ. This is why I’ve given up on rational debate with conspiracy theorists.
Do you really think these government master conspirators created this complex conspiracy, AND IT ALL RIDES ON THE ABILITY OF A SIX YEAR OLD TO KEEP IT SECRET? You don’t see that as, oh, a major flaw in the plan? This is literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard a conspiracy theorist say, and more than one of you have said it. You actually think this complex plot happened, six year old children have been entrusted with the truth, and if one of them “lets the truth slip” this whole conspiracy will come tumbling down?
God damn, bro, Stop watching James Bond movies.
And your other points, which I’ve already addressed in previous comments:
Police didn’t formally pronounce the children dead. They reported what they saw, which were a bunch of dead children. We cops do that all the time.
EMTs weren’t prevented from performing CPR, EMS wouldn’t approach the scene until it was secured. That’s national protocol for medical first responders. At SH some first responders were allowed in, but almost all the victims were dead before the officers even arrived. One officer brought an injured girl out of the school and called for an ambulance, ambulances wouldn’t come because the scene wasn’t secure, and he ran to the fire station with her. She died.
If you really are an RN (doubtful) you’d know EMS doesn’t go rushing into unsecured scenes. When I took my EMT practicals, literally the first thing we had to ask for every scenario was “Is the scene safe?”
The check-in sign that you idiots think proves it was a drill actually proves the first responders followed National Incident Management System protocol. Dumbasses like you think we just let anyone into a crime scene, but we actually secure a scene as soon as it’s clear and we have enough resources to keep non-critical people out. As more people arrive, and more resources arrive, protocol is to set one central entrance and exit point and record everyone who goes into the scene.
Please swim back to the shallow end of the pool.
Thanks Chris for trying to use logic. Again. Maybe Richie is an ‘RN’ – registered nut!
trying to explain things to you , you know LIKE talking to a child , now did I say I was talking to a child or did I say LIKE I was , the boy on the show said it was LIKE when we have a drill ,not that it was a drill go back and really listen to him if you are a RN in CT. you should know that in CT . the highest ranking medical personal ( EMT ,etc. ), on scene can declare the presumption of death as in the presumption of death for NANCY LANZA was declared by an EMT .. btw 3 of the first responders included 2 EMTs an a RN , ,,, and for the check in sign , it has been proven that it was not there on the 4th , it was there as of mid day on the 15th , , don’t you think that the police would make sure that only authorized people were permitted back on the school grounds as in the school staff to get their personal items back ,( purses ,phones, cars etc )
Ditto Richie..A frail kid murdering 20 kids, 6 adults…and no one was wounded…and did it in a few minutes…Every mass shooting has many wounded…At Ft Hood one warrior was shot 9 times and survived.
Teacher Natalie Hammond was wounded and survived. It took me about 28 seconds to find that information online.
http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Sandy-Hook-survivor-s-wit-and-will-a-weapon-for-4125396.php
I’m not going to bother approving the rest of your rambling bullshit.
How many mass shootings have 14 kids TRAPPED in a small bathroom or hiding under desk , or were shot in spitting distance ,, and about the kill ratio , did you know that the kill ratio at columbine was higher in the library where the students were trapped hiding under tables , and where was your FT. HOOD warrior shot , or how many times were the other victims shot that died?
It doesn’t take any unusual skill or physical ability to fire an AR-15 and hit a bunch of 6-year-olds in a small, enclosed area.
“This is just a drill” is a response that caregivers often give to children in a frightening situation to try to keep them calm. It’s possible that the child interviewed still hung on to that comforting fiction. Grappling at that age with the frailty of human life is impossible for many children.
I could give you 50,000,000 donated reasons why hundreds of people would keep their mouths shut to this scam and hoax. Could you please explain why there are two evacuation photos online by the Newtown reporter showing two boys being evacuated twice? Or how Noah Pozners photo showed up in Pakistan in 2014 as a victim of another terrorist attack??? Or please sir, explain the police dash cam showing zero children being evacuated at the time when the police report states they were. It’s ok, I’ll wait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QoFOzR2nFc police footage of the evac . ,,,,,,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Vse-FLwLw different boys with different clothes ,,
As to your questions, they’re PRATTs (Points Refuted A Thousands Times). Now if you’re saying everyone involved in what you say is a hoax received $50 million, given that thousands of people would be involved and even more people would know someone who is involved, that’s an awful lot of money, though I guess it could explain how the government pays so much for a hammer or a toilet seat.
I have a hard time believing a bank employee would notice these unexplained deposits into people’s accounts (which would have to be reported to the IRS) and not speak up about it.
I have never seen an explanation on the photos. Can you enlighten me?
Read the snopes article on that question. Makes a lot more sense that a mistake was made than all the BS hoax empty theories.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/peshawar.asp
This is part of the problem, Matt. You don’t know what you don’t know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Vse-FLwLw this link will show different boys wearing different clothes
Matt, sweetie, Noah wasn’t depicted as a victim of another terrorist attack. That’s one of what Steve calls a PRATT. The women in the report from Peshawar where the image of Noah (and others) showed up were given photographs of children who had been killed in attacks prior to the one on the school in Peshawar as well as victims of the terrorist attack in Peshawar. It was intended as a show of solidarity with the mothers in the US (and possibly other places as well). You can check back through this thread for links to the coverage of that event.
For your other assertions, likewise, there are simple explanations that pass the Occam’s Razor test and don’t require a mad cap conspiracy to make sense of. I’d also like to see links for your contentions about the double evacuation and understand why you’d put so much store in a particular dash cam not showing evacuations. Have you personally watched all the dash cam footage?
Also, I must remind you again that some of the people who would have to be paid off are gun rights activists and gun owners and members of the National Shooting Sports Foundation headquartered in Newtown. (Why, I wonder, have none of the conspiracy theorists on this thread responded to this point—which I’ve made repeatedly)?
I’d also like to add, too, that in the example that I mentioned where you’re a next door neighbor to a cop or someone else involved in the hoax and you notice they suddenly bought a lot of stuff that could never afford on a police officer or paramedic’s salary, what would keep you from calling the IRS out of spite?
The two photos appear at this link. Now don’t tell me the two boys switched places, that is impossible if you look at them in relation to the green SUV. I wouldn’t tell you this is you were smart and used your eyes though, since all the other children are different in each photograph. And your explanation on the photos in Pakistan….lol, that’s a good one. Can you also direct me to the dash cam videos that show evacuation between 10 08 and 10 15 on the dash cam times??? I have watched them all and their only appears to be one grainy cluster of people on one you can’t even make out if it is children.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sandy+hook.same.boys&safe=off&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi1leuO7t7JAhWGoIMKHTqzAIcQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=Tk-kR9xNAUQ2AM%3A
Matt, are you kidding? It takes only a moment of comparison to see that those are two different boys wearing the same colored shirt.
The differences are many: Their hair isn’t the same color. Neither, when you look closely, are their pants. One is wearing pure black trousers, the other is wearing jeans that have that marbled effect. One has his gray shirt tucked into a black belt. And if that’s not enough, their shoes are a different color. One is wearing light colored sneakers, the other’s shoes are black.
Look more closely.
Really, how about the design on the boy with the black shirt?
http://www.prepsportswear.com/product/us/Connecticut/Sandy_Hook/Sandy-Hook-Elementary-School-Eagles/SofSpun%E2%84%A2-Men-s-Cotton-Long-Sleeve-T-Shirt.aspx?schoolid=149671&productid=5180&pc=black&category=8&d=45054&up_ss2=m
Matt, why is it preferable to you to believe this conspiracy theory based on flawed observations than that two boys in a school might wear similar T-shirts on a given day?
Reality check: these are obviously two different boys. In this case, their hair is the same color but one boy’s hair is cut short and side-parted and the other’s has bangs and no part. They are wearing different shoes. One is taller than the other. And—here’s the capper—THEY’RE WEARING DIFFERENT SHIRTS. (Not yelling at you, that’s just emphasis.)
Look (not particularly carefully) at the graphics on the shirts—they’re NOT the same. One boy’s shirt (which you can barely see the front of) has a large light-colored area on the upper chest, the other’s has a light-colored area sweeping down across the right shoulder and down the torso.
Do you see how carelessness and a dogmatic agenda can blind people to really obvious things? These are not the same children as shown in the other group. And that fact is visually confirmable.
Do you see the problem, Matt? The very “evidence” that you cite as reason to not just ask questions but cry “foul!” is not what you claim it to be and it requires only a moment of objective comparison to see it.
So, here’s the question: Why do you and all the other folks who’ve glanced at this picture and claimed unequivocally that these four boys are actually only two boys paraded through the parking lot, not see these obvious differences?
Noah wasnt depicted as the victim of another terrorist attack. If your claim is true, then why are all the boys in that collage VICTIMS OF THAT PARTICULAR TERROR ATTACK.
We’re talking about two different things. I’m talking about a photograph taken of a group of women who were holding 8×11 prints of children who had been killed that year in mass murders. One of the women held a picture of Noah Posner and I believe there were other photos of Sandy Hook victims as well.
The Snopes article answers the question about the collage and how it was put together. Perhaps you might read it.
Look, Matt, I know this is hard. I’m sure you’re a compassionate and kind-hearted person who hates the idea of violence against innocents. I understand that if you believed Sandy Hook were real, you would feel compelled to DO something about it or demand that the leaders of our nation do something.
I also understand that convincing yourself it’s a hoax or a false flag or a government operation, means you remove the need to do anything. Your action need only take the form of verbally sparring with folks like Chris. That will not save lives and it will not bring back all the people who have died in the intersection between sick, sad, ruthless people and guns.
Here is Snopes’ explanation.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/peshawar.asp
You don’t have to believe it, but they do show their work and you’re free to look up the sources they used and draw your own conclusions.
People who defend the OS of any event think any explanation that defends the OS is the equivalent to a fact.
OK, so you do you have any proof that Snopes is wrong about this?
The reason I defend the “official story” as you call it, or, as I call it, the “default position” is that it makes a lot more sense than any other alternative narrative.
Do you really find it that hard to believe that a troubled young man might kill his mother and 26 other people before shooting himself for reasons only he could understand?
That’s what all credible reports said happened. That’s what the state and federal investigators determined happened.
If anyone thinks something else happened, the burden of proof is on them.
I just have honest questions. So I read this account, out of intellectual honesty. Some issues:
a.) Police “charge” towards firing? Really? I am VERY close friends with a senior IL. state trooper, and no one “charges” headlong into an active shooter. But perhaps, that is a figure of speech you are using, so let’s let that one sit.
b.) You cite the NY Times. The same paper that gave us Walter “I don’t see no stinkin’ Kulaks in Stalin’s USSR” Duranty, fiction writer Jayson Blair, and big supporter of the hilarious Rigoberta Menchu. NY Times is co-opted. Sorry, don’t buy it..
c.) Calling Halbig an “idiot” tells me nothing, other than you are good at ad hominem invective. . And perhaps he didn’t answer you simply because he is busy and overwhelmed with what he is doing. That “debunking” on your side in clearly not conclusive. I *do* want his credentials verified – and if we can get corroborated confirmation that he has made up his credentials, then you have a case. But you have not done that. This is a very important question, but you response simply leaves me with an “inconclusive.” You need to provide more data. Similarly, how do we know you are really a policeman? At least with Halbig, someone could do some deep digging and provide us with answers as to his reliability. I am happy to listen, but you have not done so here.
d.) What’s the deal with the CT. police chief saying anyone who questions this alleged occurrence could go to jail in CT? That is absurd in a free country. I just want to know the facts, one way or the other. That statement does not leave me feeling confident with the story as reported. Particularly in that I have been a personal witness to a major story that was 100% reversed by the PC media the next day. Wasn’t even close.
e.) You talk about officers running a “quarter of a mile” to site. Why the word games? They ran about 200 meters, something I used to do in around 23 or 24 seconds in high school. Let’s give a fully laden policeman a minute. Again, while I am more than open to hearing both sides, this just sounds like a word-smithing shill more than anything else. Very disappointing.
f.) Speaking of police, talking with my state trooper friend, he noted that the .223 bullets start tumbling after penetrating flesh. One report I saw said that decease kids were piled up 2 and 3 deep. My friend said that *could* not happen, as the bullets are designed to barely penetrate drywall (that’s why he helped choose them for the IL. state troopers – yes, he was part of the team that did that); i.e., they could not have gone through 2 or 3 bodies, even of children.
g.) The willing conspiracy/collusion piece is better written and more cogent; and it is here that hopefully there will be more clarification.
h.) About Lanza operating a weapon efficiently: I never heard anyone make a big point out of that. Last I read, he supposedly had done practice shooting with his mother – but I haven’t read any articles about SHook until today in a long time, so I may have missed something.
In sum, your article was helpful, but as I read it, deficient. I left it no closer to knowing anything more than when I started. As noted, some of your points were important to consider (such as the collusion angle), but I left the article feeling that I was not being told the whole truth. And certainly if it is the case that lives were lost, that is central, as every innocent life – particularly of a child is of infinite value.
I look forward to hearing further word of your research into Halbig. If you can conclusively prove he is a fraud, THAT, mon ami, is important information we need to know.
t seems to me if the govt would **honor** the 2nd Amendment people wouldn’t be so questioning about the issue; as well, if the lamestream media were not such blatant liars, most of us would have an easier time believing the reports. However, as noted, I have been a **personal** witness to a national news event (in Canada – I am a Canadian citizen) that was utterly lied about, and to which I have first hand knowledge. And as noted, Walter Duranty, Jayson Blair, Rigoberta Menchu and others leave us all with the stench of leftist lies in our nostils
While i appreciate your work, I look forward a better written, more thoroughly researched post.
to claimed that halbig is a fraud is easy , , there are many fact finding videos that prove that he is . , he claims he has proof of his comments but has never showed anything , , he relies on his 18 month long job as a Florida state trooper over 35 years ago to help push his expertise in school safety. , all of his school safety businesses failed . , he claimed to have helped with the Columbine investigation , but his name can not be found in any columbine reports he claimed that in his 18 month ,he made it to being a Homicide investigator, he has done no research on his own and relied on many hoax videos as fact ., in which have been debunked ,, you may be new to this , but please do good research on what ever is said ,
I’ll address each point individually.
“a.) Police “charge” towards firing? Really? I am VERY close friends with a senior IL. state trooper, and no one “charges” headlong into an active shooter. But perhaps, that is a figure of speech you are using, so let’s let that one sit.”
I’ve been a cop over twenty years, and have dozens of close police friends. I’ve seen police run toward gunfire, and have run toward it myself.
“b.) You cite the NY Times. The same paper that gave us Walter “I don’t see no stinkin’ Kulaks in Stalin’s USSR” Duranty, fiction writer Jayson Blair, and big supporter of the hilarious Rigoberta Menchu. NY Times is co-opted. Sorry, don’t buy it.”
I cited an officer being quoted in the NYT. Your disbelief of the NYT doesn’t in any way refute the officer’s statements.
“c.) Calling Halbig an ‘idiot’ tells me nothing, other than you are good at ad hominem invective. . And perhaps he didn’t answer you simply because he is busy and overwhelmed with what he is doing. That ‘debunking’ on your side in clearly not conclusive. I *do* want his credentials verified – and if we can get corroborated confirmation that he has made up his credentials, then you have a case. But you have not done that. This is a very important question, but you response simply leaves me with an ‘inconclusive.’ You need to provide more data. Similarly, how do we know you are really a policeman? At least with Halbig, someone could do some deep digging and provide us with answers as to his reliability. I am happy to listen, but you have not done so here.”
Halbig is an idiot as evidenced by the claims he makes, which show an absolute ignorance of the subject as well as a desire to loudly pronounce that ignorance to the entire world. That is pure idiocy. If you add his ridiculous statements to my refutations and decide the result is inconclusive, that’s your call. Likewise, disbelieve my law enforcement background all you like; I’ll still be a cop whether you believe I am or not. I’m not trying to be confrontational, just stating a fact.
“d.) What’s the deal with the CT. police chief saying anyone who questions this alleged occurrence could go to jail in CT? That is absurd in a free country. I just want to know the facts, one way or the other. That statement does not leave me feeling confident with the story as reported.”
Please quote the Chief as saying “Anyone who questions this alleged occurrence will go to jail.” Find a source. And I don’t mean an unattributed quote from a conspiracy web site, I mean a legitimate source that gives the Chief’s exact words.
“e.) You talk about officers running a “quarter of a mile” to site. Why the word games? They ran about 200 meters, something I used to do in around 23 or 24 seconds in high school. Let’s give a fully laden policeman a minute. Again, while I am more than open to hearing both sides, this just sounds like a word-smithing shill more than anything else. Very disappointing.”
I didn’t claim the officers ran a quarter of a mile. I quoted dumbass Halbig, who claimed the officers parked a quarter mile away.
“f.) Speaking of police, talking with my state trooper friend, he noted that the .223 bullets start tumbling after penetrating flesh. One report I saw said that decease kids were piled up 2 and 3 deep. My friend said that *could* not happen, as the bullets are designed to barely penetrate drywall (that’s why he helped choose them for the IL. state troopers – yes, he was part of the team that did that); i.e., they could not have gone through 2 or 3 bodies, even of children.”
Your friend is wrong (or, more likely, you asked a poorly worded question ad didn’t understand the answer). Penetration depends on ammo type, range to target, and what the rounds are penetrating. A round that strikes bone from 400 meters away is less likely to penetrate than a round that strikes soft tissue from two inches. Human bodies are not homogenous like ballistic gelatin, they’re composed of different types of soft tissue plus differing types and strengths of bone. Penetration through human bodies won’t be the same with every shot.
Besides that, “2 and 3 deep” doesn’t mean one shot went through two or three children. It means some victims fell on top of others who were already shot.
“g.) The willing conspiracy/collusion piece is better written and more cogent; and it is here that hopefully there will be more clarification.”
Thanks, but there probably won’t be more clarification.
“h.) About Lanza operating a weapon efficiently: I never heard anyone make a big point out of that. Last I read, he supposedly had done practice shooting with his mother – but I haven’t read any articles about SHook until today in a long time, so I may have missed something.”
Halbig made a point of it. He claimed an autistic 20 year old wouldn’t have the strength to handle an AR-15. Specifically, he wrote, “How did Asperger-afflicted Adam Lanza with ‘very poor muscle tone’ carry a rifle, a shotgun, a handgun, and bullets? How did Asperger-afflicted Adam Lanza with ‘very very poor motor skills’ shoot 26 people dead — not wounded — in less than five minutes, firing one bullet roughly every two seconds?”
“In sum, your article was helpful, but as I read it, deficient. I left it no closer to knowing anything more than when I started. As noted, some of your points were important to consider (such as the collusion angle), but I left the article feeling that I was not being told the whole truth. And certainly if it is the case that lives were lost, that is central, as every innocent life – particularly of a child is of infinite value.”
I’d guess you will never feel that “you’re being told the whole truth”. And that’s fine. Police have a responsibility to conduct a thorough and unbiased investigation, not to personally convince every conspiracy theorist that they should believe what’s obviously true.
“I look forward to hearing further word of your research into Halbig. If you can conclusively prove he is a fraud, THAT, mon ami, is important information we need to know.”
I haven’t looked much more into Halbig. He’s vanishing into well-deserved obscurity, and that’s good enough for me.
“It seems to me if the govt would **honor** the 2nd Amendment people wouldn’t be so questioning about the issue; as well, if the lamestream media were not such blatant liars, most of us would have an easier time believing the reports. However, as noted, I have been a **personal** witness to a national news event (in Canada – I am a Canadian citizen) that was utterly lied about, and to which I have first hand knowledge. And as noted, Walter Duranty, Jayson Blair, Rigoberta Menchu and others leave us all with the stench of leftist lies in our nostrils.”
Americans are armed to the teeth; the 2nd Amendment, while under some attack, is respected by the vast majority of the government.
“While i appreciate your work, I look forward a better written, more thoroughly researched post.”
Thanks brother, but as long as Halbig remains quietly stupid I’m happy to let him stay that way.
Rule 1: Never feed a troll.
Rule 2: Don’t try to convince a conspiracy theorist their pet theory is wrong. It took me all of three minutes to find enough refuting evidence to convince me the conspiracy theorists are full of sh*t. Given the ever increasing number of incidents in the US they don’t need to engineer an incident to convince a reasonable person a gun problem exists.
Here’s a conspiracy theory that works just as well… The Sandy Hook shooting was a real event and the Obama administration has decided to cynically engineer it to look like a conspiracy so that RWNJ’s will be too busy to realise they are being screwed in a million and one other ways.
FFS people, there are so many ways governments and corporates are screwing us, the biggest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy in history has occurred over the last 8 years.
Why are RWNJ’s so quick to believe the likes of Wolfgang Halbig without confirming who the hell he is? He SAYS he is lots of things but what is the evidence he is telling the truth. He says he was a state trooper (public domain proof must exist), a customs agent (public domain proof must exist) and claims to be an expert on school safety who was consulted on previous school events. Given the profile of such events and the degree of documentation it should be easy enough to find his name as a contributing expert in the findings.
I work on a general rule of thumb, anyone who purports to be an expert usually is not.
Hey Chris i just dont understand why i can not locate any professional info or credentials on mr wolfgang halbig. Everything thing that shows on a google search is either written by him or is his name relating to sandy hook. I dont usually have an issue finding general info when simply doing a google search so it just makes me more skeptical about who he is and why people seem
To think he has anything semi intelligent to say. When someone is referring to sandy hook they make a statement like “the leading investigator in the world ” says its BS so it must be BS. And that statement is directly related to halbig. So again where can i find his resume? If it were me i would make sure my expertise , education and anything lending itself to my professional opinion , were boldly displayed to lend to the credibility of what i am saying.
Cris you’re correct of course. I think someone did some research into Halbig’s resume, and found some interesting information.
I think one of the things is, his claim of being a State Trooper, is based on only less than a year, barely out of probation, if he actually reached the end of probation.
He also spent less than a year as a Airport inspector or border agent.
The times he spent working in the school system was coupled with the lawsuits he did against the schools he worked for.
I find him to be a con man at best, he is obtaining funds from people based on his supposed resume, but it isn’t nearly as impressive as he tries to make it out to be.
So i decided today that due to my vast experience and years of trainin i now the top official on bullshit and idiots. I will learn how to make a website and credential myself in all aspects if detection and prevention of bullshit. I will read all the copies of psychology today that i can stomach an then i will be highly trained in idiot detection. I will let you know when i am up and running!!!
Thanks for getting back to me and i am going to find something that verifies who this guy is good,bad or indifferent and i will let you know.
Thanks
Cris
You people make me sick. The name calling is so typical of those who defend this so called tragedy. We are harmless cranks, mentally ill, disturbed…you get the picture. There’s a video out there called 34 questions on Sandy Hook. These are simple questions that I have yet to hear anyone reasonably address. Also, if you look online there are people willing to pay lots of money to prove them wrong. I’m confident their money is safe!
“So-called tragedy”? If you believe local police, state police, federal police, local non-police agencies, state non-police agencies, federal non-police agencies, numerous unconnected media outlets, local morticians and funeral home directors, the governor of Massachusetts (who attended the funerals of some of the victims and saw at least one with severe facial trauma), the entire population of Newtown and surrounding communities, the entire local school district who would have to know the school wasn’t attacked and no students or teachers were killed, local ER doctors and nurses, local EMS, local fire departments, and the National Sport Shooting Foundation (which is based in Newtown and has local employees who would know if Sandy Hook members of their small community were killed), and Tim McGraw (whose friend’s son was killed at SH) are all engaged in a conspiracy to fake a massacre, no answer will be “reasonable” enough for you.
Go be a harmless, mentally ill crank somewhere else.
You want to play follow the money, Dave? Ask yourself who reaps a huge financial benefit in the wake of these events. Who stands to benefit monetarily when gun sales spike, sometimes the same day the blood is shed?
It’s not the government, or Moms Demand Action, or any other gun violence activists. There’s no money in it for any of those people. There’s a ton of money in it for people who make and sell guns.
If you’re going to promote conspiracy theories, at least have them make sense on some level. Chris and I have both made a point that the National Sports Shooting Foundation would have to have bought into this conspiracy (among a whole lot of other folks and organizations) if it stood a snowball’s chance in the Mojave of working for even 5 minutes.
Do you think the NSSF would have done that if it were a liberal plot to grab guns?
Ergo, IF it was a false flag, it must have been orchestrated by organizations the NSSF was in alignment with and with whom they shared the strongest of motives.
I rest my case.
Am I actually saying that gun manufacturers and vendors and gun rights organizations orchestrated these tragedies to drum up business? No. For the simple reason that’s its logistically impossible to pull off in the real world.
For the love of God, go back through the thread and read what Chris and I have posted about logistics. (or start here: http://bookviewcafe.com/blog/2014/05/14/truthers-vs-writers-time-freeze-frames-connections-and-back-story/)
Then, answer me this: 1) Where do you end up when you follow the money? and 2) How is it everyone in Newtown (and beyond)—no matter how diverse their ideologies and political leanings—were enlisted in this effort with not one leaking the “truth”—even those who are pro-gun?
One more question Dave—it’s one I’ve asked a number of times of several different conspiracy theorists here and have yet to get an answer: If this is a government/liberal plot (as opposed to one performed by the gun lobby), how were gun rights activists in the Newtown area such as the National Sports Shooting Foundation convinced to turn a blind eye?
Seriously, I really want an answer to this one as well as the two questions I asked in my other reply to your comment.
Dave, if you think the 34 questions haven’t been answered, then please by all means, ask any question from that ridiculous list, and get the answers that you apparently unable to find yourself without help.
I am reading this in scotland. We had a terrible mass shooting at dunblane school about 30 years ago. The whole country was in shock. Throughout it all and ever since, nobody once suggested it was faked. Is it an American thing? The poor families. I hope they are spared from the worst of these vile claims. What the hell is wrong with these conspiracy people? Is there any way they can be charged with something? Slander? Wasting police time…..anything?
Unfortunately, we don’t have laws against vile stupidity.
Funny you should ask. The other day, I came across an article about the Dunblane shootings being faked. I’m not going to link to it because I don’t want to drive any traffic to that site. You didn’t see this nonsense as much back then because it was before the internet existed and these people couldn’t find each other as much and didn’t have the audience they do now. There have been some people arrested for harrassing victims’ families. The most notable is Matthew Mills, who accosted Vicki Soto’s sister at a charity road race. He eventually entered a something like a guility plea (at Stafford plea, I think it’s called) where he didn’t admit guilt but conceded that there was enough evidence to convict him. He got probabtion.
I think it’s a complex answer that affects more than just this area of American life. This is a society in which many people believe they are on their own, that it’s every man for himself, dog eat dog, however you want to put it. In part because of the way the country was founded and the values involved, there is a strong sense of individual sovereignty. But that also breeds, IMO, a sense of “Well, if no one’s for me but me, I need to suspect the motives of other people. Especially those who are not like me in ways I don’t understand.”
That, I think, is at the heart of racial and religious strife, party politics, economic inequities and a host of other things that we seem to struggle with here. In essence, I think it’s about identity—about what values and groups we identify as “us” and opposing forces we see as being “not us” and therefore “against us.” Reality is not often (perhaps never) binary, but it’s easy to fall into the trap of believing it is.
I think there’s a good dose of emotional self-protection in some conspiracist’s worldview, from what I’ve been able to glean from engaging with them. There is sincere revulsion at the idea that someone could actually commit an atrocity like Sandy Hook. It is more comforting, perhaps, to believe that there is an inimical evil force of “others” who have caused it to happen FOR REASONS. That mindset allows a person to believe that there is a logic behind such events rather than that they are unpredictable, irrational, and senseless. It makes reality more manageable if you can find a logic to it that assures you that you won’t be blindsided by the incomprehensible.
To resolve this issue, all the State of Connecticut has to do is release the relevant documents that they have locked away regarding this controversy. So many unanswered questions, so much that just doesn’t add up. Especially the disposal of biological waste (blood, bodily fluids). That is a HIGHLY regulated industry and the procedures must follow Local, State, and Federal Laws as well as school committee rules. If there was any cleanup of biological waste, there has to be documentation. Again mandated by law. It is logical to say that if there is no evidence of the cleanup, then there was no crime.
There are no unanswered questions. The questions have been answered. If you don’t want to accept the answers, that’s nobody’s problem but your own.
The state has released all of the relevant *public* documents. There are *zero* “unanswered questions”, other than “what makes a teenager become murderous?” All you crazy troofers have bugs up your butts because you cannot harrass, demand, hack into, or steal *private* documents such as death certificates and crime scene photos. The only reason any of you Loons want those documents is to taunt and harass the families with pictures of the dead children. There is no legal or moral reason to do that. I am beginning to suspect that every one of you is envious of the murderer. You think murder is masculine, and have serious doubts about your own masculinity. So do I, given your propensity to bully grieving people who won’t shoot at you. Join the military if you want to menace peaople with weaponry. Oh, but that would make *you* the targets, and one thing you all have in common is that you are cowards who would never stand up to a criminal. In fact, you colude with other cowardly criminals with a morbid desire to look at photos of the bodies of child murder victims. It really burns you to be unable to wave gory photos of pediatric corpses in the faces of those children’s families.
Wolfgang halbig’s theory about Sandy Hook or the evidence he has presented has not once been proved wrong. Why don’t people believe that a hoax like sandy hook could be created? Look at history, Nazi history to be exact! All you need are willing participants, a few major mainstream media outlets,and an agenda! I salute wolfgang! He risked everything to bring the truth to light. His life will never go back to normal!
He doesn’t have to be “proved wrong,” you moron. If he says it’s true he needs to back it up with evidence. He doesn’t have evidence though, he just “asks questions,” most of which are really stupid and only prove that he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about.
Please look back through the thread for the discussion of logistics. This “theory” fails just on logistics alone.
Why? Because of the sheer number of people that would have to buy in to the plot without those soliciting them leaving a paper or digital trail. Please note that not all of these people are gun-control friendly, especially the National Sports Shooting Foundation, which is headquartered in New Town. This isn’t a closed movie set or a tiny podunk town cut off from the rest of the world. The government would have to get buy-in from thousands of people of different political, religious, and philosophical persuasions, do it in record time, and without leaving any trace of the scheme.
Walk through it: They can’t use mail or email or telephone. Would they go door-to-door? How long might that take? How would they know they wouldn’t encounter a member of the NSSF that would blow up the whole thing. I could go on, but won’t.
The comparison to Nazi Germany is inapt. The Nazis weren’t pulling a “false flag” operation. They were pushing propaganda against scapegoated groups with the promise that they would make Germany great again after its humiliating defeat in the war, and would do it by getting rid of those groups. The two situations could not be more different.
And yes, Halbig has been proven wrong. One example: He and his followers assert that if you look at images from the evacuation of the school, you’ll see the same kids in the same clothing cycled through the parking lot repeatedly. There’s a link to such a website somewhere in this thread, with pictures posted pointing out children who are said to be the same. I followed the link. One look at those images, though, and the myth is busted. The children being identified as “the same kid” aren’t the same at all. They have different hair, different clothing, different shoes.
One such mismatch are two boys in black shirts with artwork on the front. They’re the same boy! the site proclaims. The problem? In one image, the artwork is small and on one shoulder. In the other, it dominates the entire front of the t-shirt. The shirts have one thing in common–they’re both black. None of the images they offer as proof show the same child recycled through the parking lot.
Why do some people fail to notice this glaring disproof of this claim? They don’t wish to, for any number of reasons.
As Chris said, all Halbig does is “ask questions.” He doesn’t answer them. He doesn’t lay out a plausible explanation of what he thinks happened and give evidence to support his claims. He did get arrested a few years ago, however. Seems he had the Social Security Number of one of the victims’ parents in his possession. Yes, his life will never be the same, nor should it be.
It’s been 8 1/2 years since the shooting and 7 years since Chris wrote this article. Did you even read it?