True about #3. I get that way sometimes. Gotta dial it back.

I know it’s a difference in degree that makes it look like apples and oranges, I’m trying to simplify in order to get the concept across. #3 could then be, “Imagine if Westboro began acting in a manner akin to ISIS, and gaining a like following.”

Westboro congregation numbers are insignificant when compared to extremist Islamic adherents. It is an apples to oranges comparison.

Could these students be our future “moderate muslims”?:

The message on campus is one sided in my rational opinion.
They will be the future face of Islam and have drug along with them, weak minded non-Muslim students that which the message of deception resonates. Anti semitic attacks are at an all time high here in the US and globally. We as a nation will soon turn our backs on Israel in my opion as the hate grows unchecked due to only one narrative being allowed in the debate.

This is the root of the problem, not our attitudes towrd moderate Muslims, which in my opinion is a dangerous distraction from the real threat. I have already stated in other comments that history supports the theory that the peaceful majority have always been insignificant when it came to atrocities. The violent minority always controlled the message and wielded the power through horrific acts that effectively silenced the sheeple.

Control the minds of the youth, and you control the future. Considering this fact, the future is one of horrific acts like none before.

It really is that simple.

I would not use point 3. It is heavy in arrogance and sarcasm.

IMHO, you are comparing apples to oranges. We do not see the congregation of Westboro expanding, yet ISIS and other etreme Islam groups are gaining massive popularity. Westboro is insignificant, period.

All of this percolating around the brain gave birth to an idea, one that maybe one day I can put to use. At that presentation, I wonder what the response would have been to someone stepping up to the mike and asking the crowd these three questions (after appropriate disclaimers currently required in public discourse):

1. How many of you are Christian, of any denomination or sect?

2. How many of you support in any way the activities – for that matter, the very existence – of the Westboro Baptist Church?

3. Now do you get it?

V is on today. Well said, again.

Well done, V. A facet of the matter that is seldom brought up.

Oh, please not I wrote “…want to scream..”, not “do scream”. Stress is often the gap between what you want to do, and what civility, professionalism and maturity allow you to do.

I do try, probably not as successfully as I would hope, to engage them, when they are willing to engage in actual discussion. And, again in the open carry example, to have the conversation out of earshot of the “mundanes” so as to keep the disagreements “within the family”. (Have not had the occasion to discuss the situation with Islam with people as, adamant, as Chris described).

At the very least I try to get across that we agree on the ends but disagree on the proper strategy and tactics to achieve those ends, and lets see what we can work out on that.

Unfortunately, at the edges of the bell curve of any group there are those that are not interested in compromise or discussion, and consider anyone that disagrees with them as either enemies or traitors. A small percentage to be sure, but often make more noise that everyone else put together. Those I “label and end the discussion” as I am too old and tired to spend energy beating my head against brick walls.

The trick, of course, is to ID which is which in order to expend my limited time and energy on those that where it will have some impact.

I have written before and not always agreed with your points but I whole heartedly do here.

Many people make sweeping generalizations about things and are ignorant of the facts and the question is why? Because it is easier to have things that are black and white and not have to deal with the messy grey areas and thus admit things are often more complicated than they seem.

Look at the stupid things Sarah Palin or the other not so very bright republican female politician (cannot remember her name is) has said.
That is like making generalizations about gun owners or republicans etc.

There are always shades of grey but then sometimes you get the crazies like Isis or westboro wing nuts. They have to be treated accordingly but hey That is what makes life so interesting.

Kirk,

I don’t know where you’re getting your “facts” about Kosovo. This is from Wikipedia:

“A study in 1838 by an Austrian physician, dr. Joseph Müller found Metohija to be mostly ‘Slavic’ in character.[23] Müller gives data for the three counties (Bezirke) of Prizren, Peć and Gjakova which roughly covered Metohija, the portion adjacent to Albania and most affected by Albanian settlers. Out of 195,000 inhabitants in this region, Müller found:

114,000 Muslims (58%):
38,000 are Serbs (19%)
86,000 are Albanians (39%)

Christians:
73,572 Eastern Orthodox Serbs (38%)
5,120 Roman Catholic Albanians (3%)”

This backs up what I said earlier about Some Serbs being Muslim and some Albanians being Catholic.

“A study done in 1871 by Austrian colonel Peter Kukulj[25] for the internal use of the Austro-Hungarian army showed that the mutesarifluk of Prizren (corresponding largely to present-day Kosovo) had some 500,000 inhabitants, of which:

318,000 Serbs (64%),
161,000 Albanians (32%),
10,000 Roma (Gypsies) and Circassians
2,000 Turks”

This shows population fluctuations, which are to be expected in an area which has traded hands repeatedly throughout history.

“Maps published by German historian Kiepert[24] in 1876, J. Hahn[24] and Austrian consul K. Sax,[24] show that Albanians live on most of the territory of what is now Kosovo, however they don’t show which population is larger. According to these, the regions of Kosovska Mitrovica and Kosovo Polje were settled mostly by Serbs, whereas most of the territory of western and eastern parts of today’s province was settled by Muslim Albanians.

An Austrian statistics[27] published in 1899 estimated:

182,650 Albanians (47.88%)
166,700 Serbs (43.7%)”

Albanians were at least a substantial population in Kosovo in the 19th century.

20th century demographics:

“British journalist H. Brailsford estimated in 1906[28] that two-thirds of the population of Kosovo was Albanian and one-third Serbian. The most populous western districts of Gjakova and Peć were said to have between 20,000 and 25,000 Albanian households, as against some 5,000 Serbian ones. A map of Alfred Stead,[29] published in 1909, shows that similar numbers of Serbs and Albanians were living in the territory.

German scholar Gustav Weigand gave the following statistical data about the population of Kosovo,[30] based on the pre-war situation in Kosovo in 1912:

Pristina District: 67% Albanians, 30% Serbs
Prizren District: 63% Albanians, 36% Serbs
Vučitrn District: 90% Albanians, 10% Serbs
Ferizaj District: 70% Albanians, 30% Serbs
Gnjilane District: 75% Albanians, 23% Serbs
Mitrovica District: 60% Serbs, 40% Albanians

Metohija with the town of Gjakova is furthermore defined as almost exclusively Albanian by Weigand.[30]

Citing Serbian sources, Noel Malcolm also states that in 1912 when Kosovo came under Serbian control, ‘the Orthodox Serb population [was] at less than 25%” of Kosovo’s entire population.[31]'”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo

I lived in Kosovo for a year and a half. During that time I read several books on its history. I learned to disregard books from Serb or Albanian sources, as each side would claim they’ve always been the majority and always claim perpetual sainthood and victimhood. Kosovo Albanians claim Kosovo as their ancestral homeland, since it was populated by Illyrians (who Albanians believe are their ancestors; they’re proud of the fact that Alexander the Great’s mother was Illyrian). Serbs claim the Serb Orthodox Church was founded in Kosovo, and are proud of the ancient city of Novo Brio, which some claim was exclusively Serb. Novo Brdo was, at one time, bigger than medieval Paris and London. A Serb politician once told me Skenderbeu, the Albanian people’s most important hero, was actually a Serb who converted to Islam.

But anyway, now let’s discuss your contention that the moderate Muslims I’m talking about are all either secret jihad agents, apostates marked for death, or destined to be forced back into fundamentalism. I call bullshit. You’re talking about, at least, tens of millions of people. I don’t know any group of tens of millions of people, whether religious, political, ethnic or other, who can all be so clearly categorized.

Yes, the Muslims I’m talking about are likely apostates in someone’s eyes. That applies to almost the entire population of Turkey as well, and Kosovo. Turkey has been “a nation of apostates” (my term) since Mustafa Kemal abolished the caliphate almost a hundred years ago. I agree that far too much of Islam is driven toward fundamentalism, and far too many individual Muslims embrace it. That doesn’t mean they all do; the friend I described isn’t a unicorn. You can’t explain her away. She exists, despite your insistence she’s an impossibility. And my experience tells me she’s one of many.