Comments on: In Defense of the Officers Who Arrested Freddie Gray

By: JCC

JCC — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 00:03:36 +0000

@ Mike L –
Actually, it’s exactly the issue as framed by the Baltimore prosecutor in her original public statements. She alleged that the original arrest was illegal, because the knife wasn’t unlawful, so anything that followed was likewise illegal. She has apparently altered that theory in the grand jury proceedings, and now says that her theory rests mainly on the failure of the officers to render medical assistance, even though the victim was requesting such. No one, at least no one in the media reports, is claiming that Gray was beaten to death by the officers. In fact, there was a preliminary medical examiner report which claimed the cause of death was a large bolt or protruding nut of some kind inside the van, and that Gray somehow struck his head or neck on it. The manner of death was “accidental”, later changed at the request of the prosecutor to “homicide”, which could be consistent with the prosecutor’s theory if you include “negligent homicide”.
But as far as I know, not a single person is alleging that Gray was beaten to death. Although the government now wants to seal the ME’s report, it’s pretty clear that their theory is not that Gray was actually directly killed by an assault, but by some kind of accidental injury inflicted as a result of gross negligence or cruel indifference, while Gray was unlawfully in custody.

By: chrishernandezauthor

chrishernandezauthor — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 22:17:45 +0000

In reply to mike lofton. You have evidence police beat Gray to death in the back of the van? Please present it.

By: mike lofton

mike lofton — Sun, 07 Jun 2015 19:03:09 +0000

You are miss framing the issue here…
“Ergo, the officers had no reason to stop or Probable Cause to arrest Gray, so they committed a crime by arresting him. Makes sense, right?”
NOT THE ISSUE!

No, they committed a crime by beating him to death while he was cuffed inside a vehicle.
This is why the cops will go to jail. This, and many instances like this, is why there were riots and why the public is outraged and in the streets.

It isn’t about questions of arrest in cases with cops and African Americans, it is about ABUSE!! Systematic unreported violence AFTER the arrest! And if that was happening to YOUR peers Mr Hernandez, I think you would be up in arms and raising hell! (and rightfully so)

By: JCC

JCC — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 13:08:40 +0000

@ George –
The author is correct. RS is all that is required to stop and make threshold inquiries. “Reasonable suspicion” is a fairly low bar, and while it must be articulated, can be based on observations, training, experience, 2nd hand reports, etc of the officer(s). Because of this, an experienced officer can pretty much create a basis for threshold inquiry out of any bad guy’s actions, who react predictably to cops, and also act predictably when not aware of cops’ presence.
“…just because a cop decides to stop them…” Unfortunately, for the citizen anyway, the cops are not required to debate the stop and/or explain at the moment their basis for a stop. They (the cops) certainly can be called to account later for same, but when confronted with officers, a civilian refusing to comply absent knowledge of the cops’ rationale and authority does risk some sanction.

By: chrishernandezauthor

chrishernandezauthor — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:14:21 +0000

In reply to George.

You’re actually objectively wrong on point two (and I’m not trying to be a jerk, just explaining the case law). In 1968 the USSC decided the Terry vs. Ohio case, which created the “Reasonable Suspicion to stop” rule. In that case an officer spotted three men he thought were casing a store for a robbery. He did NOT see them commit an actual crime. He stopped them and found a pistol on Terry. The USSC decided the officer did have reason to stop the three men even though they hadn’t committed a crime.

I don’t think you read my essay, but if you did please go back and check the anecdote about the man I stopped in a parking lot late one night. Being in a parking late at night isn’t illegal, he was wearing dark clothing which also wasn’t illegal, he was kneeling between two cars which wasn’t illegal, and he was pulling a ski mask down over his head which wasn’t illegal. I still had RS to stop because he appeared to be preparing to commit a crime.

Reasonable Suspicion, which is less than Probable Cause, exists as a legal principle and has been recognized for almost 50 years.