Comments on: Disputing Radley Balko’s Story, “Cop Fired for Not Killing Suicidal Man” https://chrishernandezauthor.com/2016/10/02/disputing-radley-balkos-story-cop-fired-for-not-killing-suicidal-man/ Author of Proof of Our Resolve Wed, 05 Oct 2016 04:22:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: chrishernandezauthor https://chrishernandezauthor.com/2016/10/02/disputing-radley-balkos-story-cop-fired-for-not-killing-suicidal-man/comment-page-1/#comment-259752 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 04:22:46 +0000 http://chrishernandezauthor.com/?p=2678#comment-259752 Most people shot with a pistol don’t die, and as far as I know that includes most people shot by police pistols (I can’t swear to that, I just think it’s true). You’re probably right that most people get non-fatally shot once or twice and suddenly decide to make other plans. In cases like Michael Brown, again as you said, “shooting to stop” meant creating enough damage to kill him because he wasn’t stopping otherwise. Still though, as police our objective emphatically is not to kill people. Unfortunately, in a deadly force situation that’s hard to avoid sometimes.

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By: Norman Yarvin https://chrishernandezauthor.com/2016/10/02/disputing-radley-balkos-story-cop-fired-for-not-killing-suicidal-man/comment-page-1/#comment-259751 Wed, 05 Oct 2016 03:57:57 +0000 http://chrishernandezauthor.com/?p=2678#comment-259751 I’ve grown skeptical as to the size of the difference between “shoot to stop” and “shoot to kill”. Well, there is one big difference: if you’re truly shooting to kill, after the guy is down and not moving you may put an extra bullet or two into his brain just to make sure. But before that? Okay, yes, you shoot to stop (that is indeed the objective), and yes, that doesn’t always kill… but then it doesn’t always stop, either. And if it does stop the person, it does so via massive blood loss or via hitting the central nervous system. I don’t think there’s any way you can have massive enough blood loss to quickly stop someone without it being lethal; even lethal levels of blood loss often leave someone free to act for tens of seconds. As for hitting the central nervous system, that is quite likely to be lethal. Even if it isn’t, leaving someone a paraplegic or quadriplegic takes away most of what most people value in life.

In any case, if you were shooting to kill, you’d shoot at the same targets (center of mass and maybe head); the difference is when you’d stop shooting. And as regards that, it often takes more damage to stop someone quickly than it does to be lethal, so if you stop shooting when he gets stopped by bullet damage he’s quite likely to die. (An exception I’ve heard of is a bullet to the head which doesn’t penetrate but instead just delivers a knockout blow like one a fist could deliver; but how common is that?)

Now, there is also the case of someone who abruptly changes his mind about his misbehavior when he feels bullets ripping through his flesh, rather than being stopped in any mechanical fashion by those bullets. Such people can save their lives by collapsing early when shot. Perhaps there are enough such cases to make a big difference between “shooting to stop” and “shooting to kill”?

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By: Joe in PNG https://chrishernandezauthor.com/2016/10/02/disputing-radley-balkos-story-cop-fired-for-not-killing-suicidal-man/comment-page-1/#comment-259747 Tue, 04 Oct 2016 21:38:58 +0000 http://chrishernandezauthor.com/?p=2678#comment-259747 The old joke is that even a Yugo “makes Major”.

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By: Yrro https://chrishernandezauthor.com/2016/10/02/disputing-radley-balkos-story-cop-fired-for-not-killing-suicidal-man/comment-page-1/#comment-259664 Sun, 02 Oct 2016 20:46:09 +0000 http://chrishernandezauthor.com/?p=2678#comment-259664 I would love to read a review of Balko’s book from a cop who knows the history and the rules of use of force. I’ve read it and followed his work for a while, and I agree with you that his spin of this incident is unfair, but I found many of his criticisms *sounded* valid.

I’ve read cops attacking him personally, or saying that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. But I’ve never read a cop with a good sense of civil rights go through and review what he gets right and wrong. The best I’ve seen mostly harp on his misuse of the term “SWAT” for any dynamic entry team with rifles.

If you were interested, it could be a real contribution to the continuing debate about police militarization and use of force.

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By: chrishernandezauthor https://chrishernandezauthor.com/2016/10/02/disputing-radley-balkos-story-cop-fired-for-not-killing-suicidal-man/comment-page-1/#comment-259663 Sun, 02 Oct 2016 20:32:42 +0000 http://chrishernandezauthor.com/?p=2678#comment-259663 One instructor I had compare bullets to cars. “How many grains is a .45? 230. How many grains is a two-ton car? All the grains.”

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By: Phil B https://chrishernandezauthor.com/2016/10/02/disputing-radley-balkos-story-cop-fired-for-not-killing-suicidal-man/comment-page-1/#comment-259662 Sun, 02 Oct 2016 20:27:08 +0000 http://chrishernandezauthor.com/?p=2678#comment-259662 Well, that third video clip should cue the inevitable “stopping power” debate (9mm vs .45) but emphatically a ton or so of patrol car was a one shot stopper right there …

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