A Dose of Reality for Ferguson, Missouri
Unlike much of America, I’ve stayed quiet about the shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. As a cop, I know initial media reports about any incident are usually wrong. I also know that many media outlets and internet commentators deliberately twist facts to inflame emotion. They’ll throw out empty, meaningless phrases like “he was shot in broad daylight, in his own hometown” even though that has literally nothing to do with the legality or illegality of the shooting.
And it goes without saying that in any incident involving a police officer, many people with absolutely no understanding of police work or lethal violence suddenly think they’re experts. After Brown’s death I expected a loud chorus of hysterical cries from people who had no idea what the hell they were talking about. I haven’t been disappointed.
“But he was unarmed!”
I’ve lost count of the times I’ve heard the term “unarmed teenager”. Yes, Brown was an unarmed 18 year old. He was also 6’4″ and 292 pounds. Anyone who thinks an unarmed, 6’4″, 292 pound man can’t be a threat has never been punched in the face. Unarmed people can be extremely dangerous.
In 2012 an unarmed 17 year old beat an El Paso police officer to death. The officer was 29 years old, a former Marine and veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/tablehome/ci_21708260/el-paso-police-officer-dies-from-sept-25
An off-duty police officer in New York City was beaten almost to death by an unarmed man last November.
In July, an unarmed 21 year old “felt like killing someone” and beat a 56 year old random victim to death at a train station in San Antonio.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/suspect-in-san-antonio-beating-death-i-feel-like-killing-someone/
In 2012, an unarmed 24 year old man beat a man to death for raping his daughter.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/charges-texas-father-beat-death-daughters-molester/story?id=16612071
Those chanting “but he was unarmed” are pathetically ignorant of the reality of violence. Unarmed people hurt or kill others on a regular basis. No, that doesn’t mean every unarmed person needs to be shot; it does, however, mean an aggressive, unarmed person can be a threat to your life. The bigger and stronger that person is, the bigger the threat.
“All Michael Brown did was shoplift cigars.”
No, he didn’t “shoplift” anything. He committed a robbery. Shoplifting is a nonviolent crime, usually committed by people desperate to avoid confrontation. Robbery is violent. When someone uses or threatens force to take anything, no matter how unimportant or inexpensive, that’s robbery. If someone grabs you by the collar, reaches into your pocket and takes a single piece of chewing gum, the problem isn’t the lost gum. The problem is that someone used force to take your property.
Many media outlets refer to Brown’s crime as theft or shoplifting. That’s probably a deliberate lie, chosen specifically to downplay the crime Brown committed. The Daily Kos, which can always be trusted to produce inflammatory stupidity, said “Brown shoplifted some cigars on the day he was killed”, which does not in any way describe what happened (the same article also claimed “Michael Brown was gunned down by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, apparently for the crime of jaywalking”).
Cracked magazine, which usually does a good job of cutting through nonsense, mentioned “robbery” but then decided to go full propaganda: “…the officer (who was aware of the previous robbery) saw Brown walking with the same cigars that had been stolen and suspected that he was the shoplifter.”
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/4-facts-about-ferguson-media-keeps-screwing-up/#ixzz3BEelkF41
No, Cracked. He wasn’t a “shoplifter”. He was a robber. There’s a huge difference between someone who sticks cigars in his pocket and walks out of a store, versus a guy who grabs cigars, pushes a store owner around and threatens him, and then walks out. The first act is simple nonviolent theft, the second is a violent robbery.
Both Kos and Cracked assert the robbery didn’t matter, either because the officer didn’t know about it or because stealing $50 worth of cigars doesn’t justify a shooting. I offer a counterpoint: yes, the robbery is hugely important. We’ve heard conflicting reports about whether or not the officer was aware of the robbery, and I can’t say for certain he knew Brown was a robbery suspect. But Michael Brown sure as hell knew he had committed a robbery. He knew he was about to be arrested for something more serious than shoplifting. Does that mean Brown would likely react more aggressively toward the officer than someone who had committed simple theft? Based on my experiences dealing with suspects who just committed felonies, I’d say yes.
“The officer shot him six times!”
Yes, the officer shot Brown six times. That sounds excessive. It’s not. On TV and in movies, people get shot one time, fly through the air in a spray of blood and immediately die. In real life they don’t.
A police officer got into a gunfight with a robbery suspect in 2009. The officer shot the suspect 14 times with a .45 pistol, and 6 of the bullet wounds were nonsurvivable. The suspect still didn’t go down. The officer finally shot the suspect three more times, in the face and top of the head. The head shot finally stopped him, but didn’t kill him; he died later, at the hospital. An autopsy determined he hadn’t been under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
Last year I wrote an essay about what bullets really do (and don’t do). I described incidents I worked where people were shot but didn’t react the way most people think they should. These incidents include a robbery victim who was shot three times including once in the forehead and still ran 500 yards to find help, a young female shot through the thigh who showed no reaction at all, and a man with part of his head blown off who was still conscious and alert.
http://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013/01/28/seven-rounds/
Police officers are trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized. Under stress we’re not counting bullets, we’re shooting until we’ve eliminated the threat. It is not at all uncommon for a person to take multiple bullets before they stop being a threat.
“The officer should have used his baton, Taser or pepper spray instead of his gun.”
Here’s a little-known reality about intermediate weapons: they don’t always work. In 20 years as a cop I’ve used my baton twice. Both suspects wound up in the hospital… eventually. At the time I was hitting them, they weren’t impressed. I’ve also pepper sprayed around 30 suspects. Pepper spray works on everyone… eventually. Some people don’t react to it right away. And even if you get a hit, that hit might not be enough to stop the suspect.
In 1992 a police officer responded to a domestic disturbance and confronted a violent wife abuser. The officer sprayed the suspect. The unarmed suspect beat and disabled the officer, then fractured the officer’s skull with a stick of firewood. The officer died shortly afterward.
Here’s a video of a March 2014 encounter between a police officer and suspect in a Philadelphia train station. The officer pepper sprays the suspect and hits him with a baton, to no effect. During the fight the suspect tries to disarm the officer.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/video-captures-intense-fight-between-suspect-philadelphia-officer/
Here’s one of an officer who pepper sprayed a combative suspect. It didn’t work. He then shot the suspect. The suspect disarmed the officer and tried to shoot him, then almost beat him unconscious.
But what about Tasers? Tasers work great, except when they don’t. If there’s not enough spread between the darts, the shock won’t disable the suspect. If one dart misses, no shock. If one dart gets hung up in clothing, no shock. If the Taser itself malfunctions, no shock.
And any intermediate weapon takes time to deploy and properly use. If a large, aggressive suspect charges me, I know I have mere seconds to choose a force option and hope it works. Whatever I choose, I know it’ll likely be the only weapon I can employ before the suspect is on me. Batons, pepper spray and Tasers all have significant failure rates. In some cases, the best option is to go straight for the pistol.
“Witnesses said Brown was giving up when he was shot.”
Witnesses have said a lot of things. Shockingly, Brown’s friend insists he and Brown were innocently minding their own business until an evil racist police officer cursed at them, ordered them out of the street, grabbed 6’4″ Brown around the neck (without even getting out of his patrol vehicle!), shot Brown as he was running away, then shot him again after Brown put his hands up in surrender.
There is no reason to disbelieve this version of events. Except for the fact that Brown’s friend was with him during the robbery, has a warrant for theft and giving a fake name to police, and, being Brown’s friend, is biased in his favor. Oh, and the multiple autopsies that show Brown wasn’t shot in the back.
This might be a shock to some, but sometimes people lie to protect their friends. Every time we cops show up to a bar fight, it’s practically a comedy routine from each “victim” and their friends. “Officer, I was walking by the pool table and that guy bumped into me. I said ‘Excuse me sir, I didn’t mean to bump you and I profusely apologize’, but the guy punched me! For no reason!” I’ve lost count of the hours I’ve wasted taking statements from bar fighters and their friends who insist they’re all sweet innocent angels who were viciously attacked for no reason.
I worked one shooting where the victim’s girlfriend swore – SWORE – that her boyfriend’s ex-wife had driven by and shot him as he and the girlfriend were leaving a restaurant. No other witnesses said anything even remotely like that. No physical evidence corroborated the girlfriend’s story. Eventually investigators figured out the boyfriend was shot by an unrelated woman during a fight between eight drunks in the parking lot. The woman even confessed. But the girlfriend still swore – SWORE – it was the ex-wife. Amazingly enough, witnesses with an axe to grind sometimes lie.
There are witnesses who insist Brown was attacked for no reason whatsoever. But at least two of those “witness” statements don’t match up to the physical evidence.
“Johnson [Brown's friend] said the officer hit Brown with another round as he was running away and fatally gunned him down after he stopped and raised his hands in surrender.”
“Brady [another alleged witness] said Brown and Johnson then ran away, while Wilson got out of his car and began shooting.”
No, the officer didn’t shoot Brown in the back as he was running away, unless all three forensic pathologists managed to miss the gunshot wound in his back during their autopsies. Call me crazy, but I’m not going to take their “That cop shot Brown for no reason as he was running away” statements as gospel. Another as-yet-unidentified witness made a statement in the background of a video taken right after the shooting. He said a shot was fired in the police car during a struggle, then Brown ran away, then was shot repeatedly after he turned and charged the officer. The witness statement begins around 6:30.
We will likely never know the identity of that witness and I’m sure that statement will never reach any court. But I think it was from an actual unbiased witness, and is probably closer to the truth than any other “witness” statement we’ve heard.
Bottom line
You’ll notice I said “I think” the videotaped witness statement is true, instead of saying “I know”. I’ve formed a opinion but can’t claim I know what actually happened. Officer Darren Wilson may have stopped Brown for walking in the street, then shot him repeatedly for absolutely no reason. Crazier things have happened.
But you know what’s more likely? Wilson simply ordered Brown and his friend to get out of the street, then realized they were robbery suspects and tried to stop them. Instead of complying, Brown shoved Wilson back into his vehicle, punched him (and maybe broke his eye socket), then ran away after Wilson fired a shot. Wilson jumped out and ordered Brown to stop. Brown chose to charge Wilson, who fired until Brown fell dead.
That’s what I think happened. But I don’t know for certain.
Since I don’t know the actual truth I’ll keep this opinion in the land of conjecture, where it belongs. I won’t scream about racism. I won’t demand prosecution as a way to curry favor with a particular demographic. I won’t excuse the thieving, brutal punks who use this alleged injustice as an excuse to be the murderers and looters they already were. I won’t let dumbass fantasies like “unarmed people can’t be a threat”, “he could have just used pepper spray” or “there’s never a reason to shoot someone more than once” influence my opinion. Instead, I’ll stand by and wait for actual evidence.
If that evidence shows Officer Wilson murdered Brown, I’ll fully support his prosecution. But if the evidence shows Wilson acted both legally and morally, I’m 100% on his side. Either way, I won’t let emotions drive my decision. Maybe a few others on TV and online, and a whole bunch of people in Ferguson, should try to keep their emotions in check as well.
Chris Hernandez is a 20 year police officer, former Marine and currently serving National Guard soldier with over 25 years of military service. He is a combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan and also served 18 months as a United Nations police officer in Kosovo. He writes for BreachBangClear.com, Iron Mike magazine and has published two military fiction novels, Proof of Our Resolve and Line in the Valley, through Tactical16 Publishing. He can be reached at [email protected] or on his Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/ProofofOurResolve).
Filed under: Writing | 625 Comments
Tags: ferguson missouri, michael brown, police shootings, veteran authors
Your fabricated story is full of holes too. You are forgetting that in the beginning witnesses reported more than 6 shots fired. A few rounds went off and then a brief break and then more rounds were shot. The just this week evidence came out to confirm that. You are also not covering why Brown was shot in the back of the arm, then the last shot was to the head at a downward angle. Why was the officer told to leave the scene of a crime? Other officers were there, to protect him. Did he leave to fabricate his story, like the broken eye socket? If you ever watched the series of “The Shield” , you would know, its very easy to fabricate a story , twist it enough to make many people believe it enough to support why you killed someone. With that said, officers do in fact get trained on what justifies when they can open fire. We are supposed to think that we can trust every story an officer tells us. If anyone believes that , they are an idiot. Officers can legally lie to bring fourth evidence in a case. Why would it be any different here, when they are trying to protect their-self? A fact we all know well is that officers use the “he was resisting”, he was “assaulting an officer”. Even though most of the time the officer was never being assaulted or the suspect never even resisted. The problem is, the officers word is over the suspect… case closed. Again, why should we believe the officers word in the Brown case knowing this.
Back to Wilson… Wilson said he had a broken eye socket. Medical reports say there were no broken eye socket. The chief said, “Wilson’s face had severe bruising.” However, we have not heard one ounce of evidence on Brown’s body that showed he had bruising, swelling, officer Wilsons saliva, blood etc on him. Also notice how we have not seen any photos or videos of Wilson’s face? We just may have to wait to see if this evidence comes out. By that time it could be manufactured.
I am not saying I’M 100% right on this, but you have to look at all the fact’s. Not just believe what an officer says happened.
I have yet to see good officers say they will work to get the corrupt officers off the force.
I have yet to see bad officers fired because of the good officers reporting their bad behavior.
Yet you expect us to believe that every single officer should be treated respectfully? No, not going to happen. Since there are bad officers, I will not treat every officer like they are scum, but I will not believe you are a good officer until you can prove you are a good officer. Doing psyop’s on people acting good, is not going to work.
Just because there are many good officers who have never done anything wrong themselves, does not mean they are still good officers, because they watched, or assisted a bad officer doing the wrong thing. An officer who has witnessed wrong doing by another officer, needs to speak up, or you are just as bad and corrupt as the officer who was in the wrong.
I’m sorry, you lost all credibility with me when you cited a TV show as an authority for how things work in the real world.
Exactly!! You had me until your referenced “The Shield”….ROTFLMAO!!
Exactly. As soon as I saw that, I skipped down to write the exact thing.
You make some bold assumptions and indeed accusations. In your mind officer Wilson is guilty of gunning down an innocent person. Then you go on and state more ‘fact’ from a television police show about corrupt police. You’re an agenda driven individual just like the media and politicians and race hustlers that have already tried and convicted officer Wilson.
He was using the tv show as a way reality work. He is referencing the show that cops can lie and have lied on reports to cover their own ass. Cops protect other cops. Which is why they can’t all be trusted until you can sift through honest ones. SMH!!!
Yeah your “Shield” reference, go play on the freeway LOL!
Agreed on the Shield reference and one point that has been forgotten – He was probably taken out of there to protect him from an angry mob that was forming. Does anyone remember the looting? If that mob had gathered while he was still in a police car, imagine what would have happened to him? Why no pictures? I wouldn’t want the world to know what I looked like either. I’m sure it was for his protection. This is probably the best article I have read about this shooting. Al Sharpton is the one that gets everything going..throws gasoline on embers. Where is he when the truth finally comes out? Anyone remember Taywana Brawley?
Jason, I don’t think you quite got what the Author was trying to do here and that is show to someone like myself, who is not in law enforcement, that there are other possibilities than those that have been expressed by the media. He can correct me if I am wrong.
Also, because I am a little bit nit picky (I apologize), if you are going to call out someone make your comments readable to general public, and. don’t use TV Shows as evidence for fact based arguments, it is just not credible enough.
Did you seriously just use a fabricated TV show to back up your argument?
Clearly you’ve never seen Dexter or you would understand that this was completely justified as Brown had broken the law 100%.
Ted Nugent for president!
Aliens built the pyramids!
Lee Harvey Oswald was framed by the government!
Lee Harvey Oswald WAS framed by the government!
LOL!
If Brown was running toward the officer the shot that COULD have hit the arm from behind COULD ALSO have hit the arm from the front had the arm been up in a running position and would have been hit in exactly the same place. It COULD also be the same bullet that, after hitting the arm, continued on and was the source of the wound in the right side of the chest.
A much more likely scenario going along with all the other wounds from the front.
I think we are forgetting thee facts that the officer grabbed the boy, pulled his revolver and told Brown, “I will shoot your smart A–. then the weapon discharged accidently. I can see the revolver being discharged accidently, the officer holding the boy with his other hand, the re-coil from the weapon causing it to slap the officer right in the face. He turned loose of Brown, so Brown ran, which is exactly the same thing I would have done, or anyone else. Brown was 20 feet +- away when the officer shot him 6 times.. I do not call that self-defense, I am sorry, if I had done this shooting as an individual, they would hang me for sure…
Where do you get these “facts” from?
I thought I was a good fiction writer. But maybe I should hire you as a ghost writer. :)
There is no forgetting facts. YOU don’t know the facts. They will come out after the multiple investigations. Until then, stop judging and proclaiming what YOU DONT KNOW.
Oops. Meant this for the same person you were replying to.
He is not a boy… he’s an 18 year old adult.
His revolver huh? And all of this time I thought it was 2014.
He evidently watched the Andy Gfiffin episode where Barney got to shoot his gun. I don’t remember it slipping out of his hand and taking an upward angle to smack em in the eye…
I would, at some point in the future like to read the book that you must be planning on writing about this incident. It sounds interesting. Fiction is definitely my favorite.
7 shots from a revolver?
we don’t seem to have any facts regarding the officer…why aren’t they being broadcasted…why did the supporters of the officer have to be rescued in ferguson…don’t they have a right to protest….if I were being threatened, I would hold that trigger down until I felt safe and I wouldn’t care where the threatener got hit
moderation of what???
Sure, lets get up in the morning put on a uniform then plan on bullying someone twice our size for J-walking. The J-walker just perpetrated a 20 year felony robbery that is a little more than pick pocketing lunch money.
Wait until the rest of Brown’s record comes out. Not only are you misinformed, your rationale is lacking common sense.
the shield really i remember this episode of NYPD BLUE.. jason you clown
More than 6 shots means very little. Imagine being rushed by a large subject that just assaulted you leaving you dazed and confused. You realize that he is rushing you and that if he gets a hold of you, your gonna lose a hands on hand or even mechanical advantage. At this point you must assume that that once you can no longer defend your self, he is going to take your gun and shot you dead with it. So with that said, squeezing a number of shots that are not slowing the approach of an attacker down, then continuing to squeeze off more and then more if needed till you see the threat slowing or stopping. Now knowing what we know today, missing, grazing and hitting the arm did not stop the threat causing more shots upon more not knowing what is being hit but evaluating between each sequence.
Not verified that any shots entered from the rear of brown at all. Even mentioning and comparing anything you saw on television (the shield) says it all about your lack of knowledge. Ofc. Wilson being there any longer than need be leaves the ability to say he tampered with evidence and also does allow the opening to have retaliation at a such a large scale that would result in more officers squeezing of shots upon more unarmed residents of ferguson..
Browns fist on Wilson’s face will only show bruising of face. Especially when young fist is hitting things on the regular.
Bottom line, the youth showed how aggressive he felt that day 10 mins before Wilson stopped them. You think he took a chill pill after the altercation with older store clerk. Respect your elders, follow instructions from police and if you think they are wrong, handle it through the proper channels at the proper time.
Jason Reynolds you are possibly one of the most ignorant people to have ever made a statement, right next to Al Sharpton and Obama. The fact that you used a television show as a reference shot any credibility out the door. You should have added Wikipedia to those references to top it off.
Trouble is cops across the nation are being acquitted for crimes like the Thomas Kelly murder – CAUGHT ON TAPE – THREE cops, one skinny, mentally ill, unarmed, homeless man, beaten by all for ten minutes, who later died of his injuries. WORSE THAN THAT – Eric Holder’s office has not/refuses to collect data (required by FED law) on all reported incidents of excessive force.http://crooksandliars.com/2014/08/heres-thought-why-dont-we-enforce-law-eric Yeah, maybe.. just maybe, this is why anyone-in-their-right-mind is not so inclined to trust ‘ANY COP TODAY’. http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/crime-fullerton-government
Well said Anita. I used to respect cops until a cop lied excessively on his police report. His reason for pulling me over was that I “went over the fog line”. I said “what’s a fog line?”. When I received the report in the mail, he had made up everything – said I was speeding, weaving from lane to lane, weaving within my lane, with my lights off (at night), and seemed “confused” (because I asked what a fog line was). I asked my lawyer if this was true, why any bone-headed cop would follow someone for a mile in heavy traffic before pulling them over if they were driving with their lights off and weaving from lane to lane – they would obviously be a danger to other motorists and he would have already had his excuse to pull the driver over. My lawyer said he doesn’t trust cops so won’t even have one drink with dinner. Because they have a quota to meet and will simply lie to meet that quota. No camera, so it was my word against his. I think every cop in the country should have to have video taken of every stop. Even then it doesn’t seem to matter, when video cameras catch them beating a defenseless person and all they get is a paid leave for a few days and slap on the wrist. The police of yesteryear were not like this (always a few bad eggs though). Now it is to the point that hardly anyone I know trusts cops. Those that do have never been railroaded or had the police lie to make their case stick.
Anita and Carol Ann. So I hear you saying you had a bad encounter with a cop and so now you believe all cops are bad. That’s like saying a man raped me, so all men are rapists. Or Anita, sounds like you’re saying, the rapist went to trial and was acquitted due to some technicality. So let’s not trust any man cause one or three got away with the rape so all men are rapists and they get away with it. Your logic seems pretty flawed.
Wow, Carol Ann..another drunk driver who did nothing wrong.
Carol Ann are you so misinformed. If your lawyer did say that then he is an idiot because police do not have a quota on drinking and driving offenses. Then you made the claim that “police of yesteryear were not like this”; you are so wrong. Do you realize that you had less rights “yesteryear” and that police could get away with just about anything. If you looked sideways at a cop and he beat you that you could do practically nothing. In fact “yesteryear” you wouldn’t dare pull the crap that people pull today as they know they would have their a$$es handed to them by the police. Police now are under so much scrutiny, legislation, procedures and policies that it hinders them. That more criminals get off due to technicalities and wind back up on the street committing the same crimes. Funny, you indicate that police lie to make their cases stick but offer no hard evidence but fail to say the obvious that “people” lie all the time to deflect the truth so they look innocent when they are guilty; especially criminals. And you failed to mention that you have lied several times in your life; we all have so don’t be surprised I called you out on this. Do police make mistakes; you bet they do, they are humans. Are there bad cops; you bet there are, they are humans. It doesn’t matter what a person does in life there will be good people and bad people. Good people make mistakes too. It is hard to weed the bad people out but it is so sad that the bad people are such a small number and that gives the rest a black eye. I’m sorry you have never had a good experience with the police.
My apology. I started typing this on this page and then put it in a word document and pasted it in. The old crap got stuck in with it and I have no way to edited. Sorry.
Fixed it, I think. Let me know if it’s not right.
Thanks you for the editing; appreciate it.
Great article; this is the other side I have been waiting to hear. I don’t know what to think of what happened…do I think we have a race problem in this country? Yes. But I appreciated this other look at things. We must read both sides…both sides.
You are officially the biggest idiot I’ve heard so far. Obviously they didn’t release photos of the officer FOR HIS PROTECTION from morons like you that wanna take what you HEAR as truth. Also…just wondering…how do you know if they swabbed Brown for the officers blood or “saliva” (lol) I guess you were there though. Are you really not smart enough to realize that your NOT going to get the full story until trial?! (If your even lucky) your naive and ignorant if you think you know the full story. BTW…what’s the difference in you believing 100% the story for Brown (which has already proven to be fabricate and lies) as compared to someone else believing the officers story? But I forgot…you go by t.v shows. That makes you right.
You lost me the minute you slammed the author for his explanation of facts ( forgetting that he said he was offering his OPINION), and then presented your opinion as fact.
Then you type that you will treat all officers as guilty unless they prove otherwise. Arrest history, I’m guessing?
I grew up in the inner city, was a minority in my high school, and returned to that community to be an officer. I would not have hesitated to report a violent or dishonest officer. They tarnish the badge for us all. I often let people go- not writing tickets- if they were courteous and apologetic about what they’d done.
Your attitude toward police is just as bad as a cop who lumps an entire race together. And just as ignorant. Quit reading common sense articles if you’re closed-minded.
Yeah, more speculation, longwinded but only more speculation.
You’ve also, notably, never been a police officer or even probably seen into the world of police officers. Bad cops are fired all the time. You don’t hear about it for the same reason that you don’t hear about people getting fired from McDonald’s.
Also, the sole job of television is to entertain the masses. It is a very poor representation of reality. Why? Because people watch tv to escape reality. Saying that the Shield tells you how cops really work is like saying that Grey’s Anatomy is an accurate representation of the daily life of doctors.
So you respect no one then? Any profession, until they “earn” your respect. Teachers, lawyers, politicians, grocery store clerks, fast food workers… All profession have good a bad representatives, so you’re saying that you live in world (dictated by TV shows) where you trust no one and give respect to no one until they prove to you the deserve it. That is a pretty sad and negative way to live. So if other people think the same way you do, then in your job, whatever it is, you expect people to wait for you to earn their trust before they respect you as well. Your life must be a vicious circle of negativity, always distrusting people, because you’re both trying to convince the other person of your worth. I believe most people are good and trustworthy. Yes, there are bad apples, but you can’t go into every situation thinking that people are bad. You give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. That is why our legal system is built on innocent until proven guilty. It is not always the perfect system, but I think it is better than what you create. A system where everyone is guilty, until they can prove their innocence. How do they do that when you’ve already played judge and jury and made up in your mind that can’t be trusted or respected? I’m am pretty sure that is not how you want people to treat you.
real life aint tv….if you believe a fiction story about cops on tv you are a joke..give me a break
Well it funny but the autopsy report had all six shots in the front of his body. So where is the round in the back? First of all Michael did a strong arm robbery. Reached into the officers car hit him and tried to get his gun. Ran away then turned and ran at the officer. There are 12 witnesses and a video to back officer Wilson’s story. Brown did not knee down and put his hands in the air as was reported by his friend Devion Johnson had reported. In fact Johnson has finally admitted the truth that Michael any he did the strong arm robbery and brown attacked officer Wilson. There is a audio recording where you hear 3 shots break and 3 more shots. Even Badens assistant admitted that the shot brown got can happen if he was running at Wilson. Bottom line brown caused his own death.
Let’s correct your inaccuracies and before I start let me say I have over twenty years as a cop and have just a itty bit of knowledge about weapons, rounds, distance, fight vs flight, adrenalin, narcotics, witness accounts on and on and on. I am not a lay person regarding what we are talking about. Regarding how many shots fired. The fact that witness said at the beginning 3 or 9 or 16 shots were fired means nothing. Even if the officer does not know how many and most never do in a combat shoot, the casing on the ground, the officers magazine will confirm the number. The amount of times Brown shot obviously confirmed by coroner/report. Placement of rounds: Brown shot 6 times. 4 to arm and two to head. Five maybe six shots missed and one prior shot in car during fight. What you will soon learn by numerous test, GSR ClothingBody/Hands/, scenarios, foot prints, scientific conditions, experts from multiple agencies is the distance (better than approximate) to which Brown was shot by officer. We obviously will never know the order of fire of the 5 or maybe 6 shots missed. What has been established already through wits, including officer and Brown co-conspiracer is approximately 20–25′ away from officer after the two ran from the fight inside the vehicle which produced a discharge of officers weapon. It also been stated by wits including Browns friend is that there was a fight and Brown attempted to disarm officers weapon from holster and shot was fired. And this is where the misinformed and wannabe Judge Judy’s and CSI watchers are oblivious. The first accounts of this by wits were Brown was shot in back which was found wrong, all shot from front/Coroner Report. U stated about the arm shot from behind. Let’s try a through and through, sorry. Once Brown ran away about 25′ he stopped and turned around and then he taunted officer again. Brown rushed at officer. This very account is on Video and Audio of male black witness stating the such and it is confirmed from placement of shots and Browns placement of where he stopped and where he lie shot dead. First 4 that struck Brown were in his arm. Nay sayers have been saying how and why would Brown continue or be able to continue to rush officer when shot. Really? Too much tv and movies people. Ready for this – The last four hits to Brown were 2 to the arm and 2 to the head. Guess what? Those last shots from officer were at Point Blank Range. This is why you have the downward angle. Hello, Point Blank Range. Brown was within only feet of officer when down. Once again, not only stated by male black witness on video and audio but will be proven by GSR, prints and the placement of body to officer. Sorry folks but nice try he was shot from 25-30′ away and gun downed. Let’s also add a Fact that it would only take Brown approximately 2 seconds to reach officer at a full sprint from that distance. People and Brown’s attorneys scream out why six times shot, excessive force. Please. Shoot and hopefully strike until threat is no threat. Wow 11 shots, Most shooting are within 6′ and most of the shots fired are Missed. If that was the case, officers were only care 1 or may 2 or 3 rounds, right? We usually carry three magazines and depending, around 15 rounds, plus a back up gun plus usually a shot gun and assault rifle.
Before I continue let me add this regarding officers covering for others, bad officers, etc. Absolutely correct. Of the hundred of thousands of officers in this country, a minuet amount are corrupt, etc. With hundreds of thousands of officers, even a few thousand would be considered small but 100% too many. In a perfect world there would be none but that will never happen in law enforcement or Any profession. This is a profession that has to perform at a higher level. I personally was a whistle blower against high ranking officials and high ranking management of a police dept which involved FBI, lawsuits. This lasted for years and I won every trial, suit, appeal etc. I say this because most say that I am picking the officers side because I’m an officer. Sorry. I would never lose my job to protect another’s wrong doing. This entire incident is about ones ACTIONS. If Brown was white he still would of been shot with no change. If officer was black, same ending. Brown was shot due to his Actions not his f. color. People say why not shoot him in the leg, get a sling shot and shoot his eye out, spray, baton, taser, etc. Omg please with the tv and movies people. Your statement about u say something on the tv show The Shield just proves my point. It’s a f. fictional tv show. The only option with these Actions was correctly displayed and used. Just amazing how people can’t take responsibility for their Actions. So your statement about you have never seen a bad officer fired etc due to a good officer standing up etc. Absolutely 100% Wrong. Yes, no one has walked up to you and told u and showed u this nor would they ever. I have never seen many things but guess what, u don’t see most things. Sorry but that statement is Wrong.
You talk about officers eye and not seeing pics, etc. You never heard the officer say officer say that. The results were negative regarding his eye socket but confirmed of swelling, redness and days later usually bruising. y Why do you think u would see pics, etc. Once again a lay person knowing nada about the court system, etc. No shit u never saw pics. U also will not see any pics of the scene, the car, the shell casing, GSR, prints, etc etc. U know why? Because there is something called a Process, an Evidentiary Process. Almost everything u have heard regarding this case has come from Brown’s attorneys, Felon Sharpton, politicians etc. All trying to put their Spin on this case. It’s called Future Jurors. Everything u believe u the people are suppose to hear are not for you or anyone to hear until revealed in the court/trial process. Only been this way since the beginning of our court system.
Let me talk about character assassination: People want to know and through the Process are allowed to know about the Officers past to present with the police dept. This includes complaints and everything else. People say that when the video of Brown was shown that was character assassination. Wrong. It shows Brown’s state of mind. And it shows his Character. Guess what all that is admissible in court. Here’s something else people refuse to hear. Brown is a Validated member of the Vice Lords gang. Brown committed multiple Felony crimes on record which include Weapons and Burglary, etc. U don’t want to hear that, you want to hear he is a good kid that was about to go to college. That’s great he was going to college. That is great that this Felon Thug was going to college. It is his character. In this incident Brown committed no less than 3 Felonies (211PC – Strong Arm Robbery, 245PC – ADW on officer and Brown’s attempt to take officers weapon not including numerous misdemeanors. Brown’s co-conspirator has little by little been giving up information of what actually happened from his original bs which includes Brown attacking officer and attempting to take gun. Don’t know if officer has a backup gun but if he had and could of retrieved, would/should of shot Brown during the struggle of holstered gun.
It is very unfortunate that this very case is being falsely portrayed and narrated by the Sharptons of this world. I will end with if this officer shot Brown from 25′ away with Brown never advancing, then officer is going bye bye. Not what happened though people. I agree with the talk about schools, jobs, distrust bt cops/community, etc. That is true and needs to be heavily worked on and towards a better solution. But that has nothing to do with this incident. This incident is about a young man’s Actions and due to His Actions, said result. And Nothing I said is racist and nothing based on color, I surely don’t give a crap. And no wrong, I’m mixed as well as my kid. Any questions lol, I’m sure I missed something.
So you watch the shield and that makes you an expert or even gives you a base knowledg, what do you do for work? Have you ever endured or come in contact with someone who is on an adreniline rush, well other than your avitar in your video game? have you ever been in a situation where you are can be easily over powered? Other than when your mama and your daddy told you you needed to go to bed now? Probably not.. When you have put a real comment up on here.
You a fuckin idiot
Remember that time some dipshit wrote a piece backing the asshole cop that shot an unarmed kid 6 times? Yeah, me too.
Also, did I mention that the officer shot an unarmed kid 6 fucking times? Stop making excuses for the bullshit that went down in Ferguson.
Now fuck off.
Dumabass.
Jason you are an idiot. I shouldn’t take the time to point out to you how the writer in the above essay did not say he was 100% right, but simply brought out real factual cases regarding other deadly altercations between “innocent victims” and police and stated “that is what I think happened” regarding the Ferguson tragedy.
Micheal Brown likely got what he deserved, but again, that is my opinion. Maybe you should watch “Cops” to get you information. Remember, it is better to be thought a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt….
You have as many holes in your story as you state Chris has….
1. Something about six shots and then several more, blah, blah, blah. As you stated there is a sound clip that has been released. Again it has NOT been determined that this is actual evidence, but let’s assume for a second it has…. I heard four shots and a slight pause and then four more shots. Why was he shot in the back of the arm? One of the coroners stated it was a secondary wound, meaning it came out of another spot and hit him there. Why on the top of the head? Maybe becuase poae do not crumple to the ground like your precious TV show “Shield” and when he was finally falling to the ground the police office was firing his last shots. Who knows besides Oddicer Wilson and Browns friend.
2. As for why did he leave? Have you seen all the news reports and independant file crews where civilians are trying to stop people from looting and are getting their lives threatened? They removed him from the scene to asset his injuries and to try to control the crowd. If Officer Wilson stayed it could have started the riots and all out war sooner.
3. You’re not going to treat police officers as hood until they prove TO YOU they are?!?! Dude, you’re an idiot. Personal experiences with law enforcement…. I do what they say, I get my ticket or talked to and I go on my happy way. I’m biychy or ride or mean and the check every possible detail on me before they give me my ticket or my talking to before sending me on my gimpy way. You run or don’t listen and talk back to, say you don’t have to, you have rights….. They will make you comply. Fight more and it could have an even worse outcome. My dad was a police officer for 18 years…. He dealt with some great people and some horrible people. If you go into with a good attitude, so do they. If you go into with THEY need to prove something to you….. It’s gonna be a battle of power and guess who gonna get hurt? If you do, it sucks. If the police do, it sucks cause now you get to ho to jail over a stupid power struggle. You’re gonna have a hard life interacting with police officers if you think they need to prove to you that they a good before you can trust them….. Do you treat all new people that come into your life this way? Gosh I hope not!
4. Again my dad was a police officer for 18 years and I know you can’t trust then to always tell the truth….. I can’t trust anyone to always tell the truth. In this point your just completely irrational.
5. As for good officers turning in bad officers??? Happens more often then you think, but it doesn’t always get blasted all over the news like soemthing like this.
7. Referencing a TV show? Dude come back to reality.
8. Chris repeated several times it was his OPINION. You know opinions are like belly buttons….. Everyone has one. If you don’t agree with his cool…. Don’t try to change his opinion cause it doesn’t match yours. You want to point out another persons flaws remember there’s three more fingers pointing back at you. Just like I know there’s three more pointing back at me for writing this.
I don’t agree with you, but your opinion is yours. I was trying to make a point.
I hope we find out the truth that happened in Ferguson, like Chris said. But I pray daily they community would come together and support one another instead of tearing Ferguson apart. Looting, rioting, setting fires, and firing guns???? How is that showing support for Brown and his family? Picketing peacefully….. That’s showing support. I agree with Chris….. When it all comes out I will be asking for justice if Wilson acting unprofessionally or I’ll be asking for justice if
Brown was the integrator. BUT I’ll always be praying for peace and understanding for Browns and Wilson’s families and for Ferguson residents.
This author carries the exact if not worse bias than he decries. He is breaking journalist ethics codes by stating in this article that Brown committed a robbery. This is not fact and he was not convicted, therefore these are allegations and must be stated as such. We all know police protect themselves and cover up their crimes because they can and they have protection from their union crony friends. Police brutality and them infringing on our rights day in and day out is a much bigger problem than petty crime like jay walking. I don’t know what happened that day in Ferguson, but I sincerely hope Officer Wilson is charged with murder and a fair trial ensues. This will send a strong message to the militarized police forces around the country that they are not the country’s executioners.
I think journalistic ethics, especially those ethics as demonstrated by mainstream media, are ethics that toe a fine line; however I for one, am grateful for the detailed explanation of the difference between shop lifting and robbery. Michael Brown’s death is tragic, but it is equally as tragic that those that would immediately blame the officer without consideration of the facts, ignore the main fact that had Michael Brown truly acted as witnesses that say he was surrendering, then he would still be on this earth to lay defense for the video that clearly shows a man fitting his description robbing the store.
Wow… this is really a stretch. Get a life.
He did commit a robbery if you knew what you were talking about he explained when a crime goes from shoplifting to Robbery get you head out of your ass!
Allegedly.
You write; “I don’t know what happened that day in Ferguson”, then turn around and write; “but I sincerely hope Officer Wilson is charged with murder”. Really??? Looks like without knowing anything you think the officer is guilty and needs a trial.
Innocent people sometimes need a trial too, if it’s not 100% clear that they’re innocent. The trial is supposed to find the truth.
Joe, it is alleged that he committed the robbery. That allegation is based on it was filmed on camera. If we go with your opinion Brown was a belligerent shopper that did not pay for items he acquired. Brilliant
That’s interesting because the store clerk says there was no robbery.
Please see my earlier responses to this. Dorian Johnson’s attorney reportedly stated Johnson admitted he and Brown stole cigars.
Theft plus force equals robbery.
Joe,
First, I’m not a journalist.
Second, Brown wasn’t charged with robbery. Lanza wasn’t charged with murder either, so I guess he wasn’t guilty of the Sandy Hook massacre. The two Columbine shooters were never charged, so I guess they’re innocent of the Columbine murders. Saying “he was never charged” in this case is simply a trick.
And if you don’t know what happened, why do you want Wilson charged with murder?
You also make assumptions, Joe. You have assumed the officer committed MURDER (based on the highly-suspect testimony of Johnson who already has a felony conviction for lying to the police and some young woman, who I believe, has already recanted her testimony). The REAL tragedy is that ALL THIS could have been avoided if Michael Brown and his buddy had acted like normal, law-abiding citizens and WALKED ON THE FREAKIN’ SIDEWALK. Can you tell me just why, exactly, the boys in the hood must walk in the middle of the street? It poses a distinct threat to themselves as well as any vehicle drivers trying to get around them on the road.
Oh. So you want vengeance – not justice. If you don’t like the job police are doing then become one and set the better example you think you can be. And hum, next time you need help, don’t call the police. Call a robber. Be sure to pick one like mike brown with multiple offenses. And, maybe he hadn’t been convicted yet of that robbery, but he had been convicted of other robberies. This info was suppressed for a while since he was a poor little minor.
I am a young black American, and I am not ashamed to admit the reason so many young black men like myself are in prison or dead at the hands of police is because they deserve it based on their choice to perform illegal activity. I cant feel sorry for someone who chooses to be a thug and take what isn’t theirs, and then act like they are entitled to it. If this country doesn’t stop catering the gangsters and thugs that make up my 13.6% of the population, and stop enabling them to live off of the welfare the rest of the population provides, we are going to become a very sorry nation. When one person provides all the supplies for a party, and everyone else takes and takes, eventually that person is going to quit coming to the party or kick all the leaches out.
WOW. What a great young, black American. Clearly you got the message about personal responsibility and have chosen to make good choices. Thank you for writing.
AMEN, Hecyris. Problem is, at that party you mention, the takers don’t riot when you quit providing. There is a segment of the population — and to be fair, it covers ALL races — who will tear this place apart once their benefits run out, simply BECAUSE of that entitled attitude.
AMEN, Hecyris! Only difference in your party scenario is this: When the providers decide not to come to the party anymore, people won’t riot. However, there is a segment of society — and to be fair, it covers ALL races — who will tear this place apart when their benefits run out, simply BECAUSE they feel entitled to have what you and I have worked hard for.
Very well stated!
you sir, just won the internet today. I don’t even know you and I am proud of you for that statement you just made. you have had a great role model in your life somewhere along the way, parents, grandparents, a teacher, or a mentor. instill this attitude in more young black men. it will take you (and them) far in life.
Hecyris,
Thank you for that comment, and best of luck to you.
WOW I agree thank you for see the truth, you give me hope for some young black men who still want to do right! Encourage others please to do the same!
A White Officer was senselessly slain by a criminal who happened to be a Black Man recently in Gary Indiana. There were no protests or riots….
Of course there were protests. The white people protested by going to work.
So only African American men are gangsters and thugs and only African Americans live off welfare correct? Well did uou realize that only 13% of the U.S is African Americans? Or maybe you did not realize you just stated that? Who uses the other 87% of the U.S welfare? 45% of the population is Caucasian. I myself am a 24 year old African American female have worked since I was eleven. Mostly two jobs at a time. I am soon to have a BSN and my husband works 2 jobs as well. We own our house, and have never received assistance. You sir are the most ignorant negro I have ever seen respond to any commentary. Maybe you’re response is for the lazy, ignorant, African Americans you surround yourself around daily. Which is ehy you could formulate an opinion such as this. The welfare system was not created by African Ameticans, and definitely not for them. Before you decide to make uncle yom remarks to gain acceptance allocate your remarks toward a more distict group. You do not know the whole African American population. Idiot!!!
ssprice- Who is uncle yom? Since your a nice African American woman why don’t you go back into the kitchen where you belong, coming from a nice African American man. Why don’t you stick to what you know like weaves and tracks. Those statements sound much like your statement, full of hate and ignorance. The real problem is there are “forces” at work beyond your comprehension and for you to misread Mr. Johnson’s statement is a reflection of whats wrong with America today. “proud working African American woman” doesn’t mean that you are the most informed on the what is truly going on in our society. So go back to twearking because your ignorance has lead to your inflated arrogance, and next time you see Al Sharpton ask him where my bean pie is.
A quote from Bill Cosby.
They’re standing on the corner and they can’t speak English.
I can’t even talk the way these people talk:
Why you ain’t,
Where you is,
What he drive,
Where he stay,
Where he work,
Who you be…
And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.
And then I heard the father talk.
Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.
In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.
People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we’ve got these knuckleheads walking around.
The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.
These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.
$500 sneakers for what?
And they won’t spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.
I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.
Where were you when he was 2?
Where were you when he was 12?
Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn’t know that he had a pistol?
And where is the father? Or who is his father?
People putting their clothes on backward:
Isn’t that a sign of something gone wrong?
People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn’t that a sign of something?
Isn’t it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?
What part of Africa did this come from??
We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don’t know a thing about Africa …..
I say this all of the time. It would be like white people saying they are European-American. That is totally stupid.
I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don’t have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany , Scotland , England , Ireland , or the Netherlands . The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa . So stop, already! ! !
With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap ……… And all of them are in jail.
Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem.
We have got to take the neighborhood back.
People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different ‘husbands’ — or men or whatever you call them now.
We have millionaire football players who cannot read.
We have million-dollar basketball players who can’t write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job.
Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.
We have to start holding each other to a higher standard..
We cannot blame the white people any longer.’
~Dr.. William Henry ‘Bill’ Cosby, Jr., Ed..D.
Wow, very well stated. They fought so hard for the right of education and today’s generation is so ambivalent towards this privilege. Education is the way out of poverty but its hard work and it takes years before you reap the fruits of that labor.
I certainly appreciate your acknowledgement that you don’t actually know for sure what happened and you seem to have a relatively open mind to evidence that may come out as this unfolds. Another hypothesis though would be that Brown pissed off and possibly hurt the officer who then in a state of anger, fear and confusion pursues Brown and fires shots at his back that miss prompting Brown to realize he is in serious danger of being shot and to then turn and surrender, facing the officer as a stationary and easier to hit target at which point the second barrage of shots are fired into his body from a distance of 5, 10 or maybe even 15 feet away. If you ran away initially and heard shots fired in relatively close range to you from behind – from a law officer – it would be a reasonable thought to stop and try to surrender versus keep running and risk being hit. It would certainly be understandable for the officer to be in an unstable and overly aggressive frame of mind after a physical altercation that “could” have prompted him to recklessly pursue the suspect and open fire when a better, safer option for he and Brown would have been to call for back up to help apprehend the suspect. Numerous police forces have ended the practice of high speed car chases not because of risk to other drivers but because of the risk of liability from officers being overly stimulated, agitated and using excessive force once the suspect is stopped. Blink, by Malcolm Gladwell has a chapter on this that discusses the mental state of police in confrontation and the series of escalating bad decisions that can very quickly get out of hand and lead to excessive force or even getting the officers themselves into dangerous situations. Training and protocol are the keys and both appear to have been very, very bad in Ferguson based on some reports that have started to leak out about the mindset of some of these officers and other incidents that have happened there. Maybe Brown did charge the officer and needed to be shot, I wasn’t there. But it’s highly plausible that a poorly trained officer from a force that has demonstrated a history of bias and bad decisions could have made a very, very bad decision in the heat of the moment.
Now, this is the best hypothesis of common sense that I have read in this whole article and comments as I believe your hypothesis has far more truth within it than the article itself.
I thank you Mr. Barnette for sharing your thoughts as it gives me something to take with me after reading and watching the videos of this article.
This hypothesis will make sense if it is backed up by evidence that the officer fired no more shots than the 6 brown was struck by.
The audio recording has more than 10 shots fired, with a pause between volleys.
There’s the problem. You again are saying you believe this hypothesis over another hypothesis. When the point made is that there could be many ways this scenario went. You would be wiser to withhold your judgements until you know the facts.
David, listen to yourself. How overly aggressive is it to prevent being beaten to death? How many J-walkers attack a polide offier without extenuating circumstances? Probably none. If he had not been attacked by Brown it probably would have been a verbal warning to remain on the sidewalk out of the street. The reality is Brown escalated his demise,
David,
Your hypothetical is also plausible. I don’t think that’s what happened, but, as I said, crazier things have happened. If the evidence shows the incident unfolded as you’ve described, then Wilson would in fact be guilty of murder.
Thanks for your comment, and for expressing it so well.
Like all the rest of us, I too was not there and have no clue as to what actually took place and I have not made it my daily mission to follow all the media’s insertion of what they would like us to believe. That being said, David, your hypothesis doesn’t make a believer out of me either. If Mr. Brown was running away when the first barrage of shots were fired (and missed him), it is not likely that a fleeing criminal would have stopped and decided to surrender. However, for arguments sake, lets say that Mr. Brown did decide to stop and surrender, that he turned back to face Officer Wilson with his hands up in the air, I doubt that at 5, 10, or 15 feet away, that even an untrained individual could fire an additional 4 rounds and hit a suspect 6 times and most of those hits being in the arm. I think that my 15 year old son, who has never fired a gun on anything other than Xbox could probably hit a torso with most every shot on a stationary target as in your hypothesis. As for the shot in the top of the head, it’s not hard to imagine that after being shot in the arm and upper torso, that I might start falling to the ground and as Officer Wilson continued to fire that one round might hit Mr. Brown in the top of the head before his total collapse. Personally, I’m waiting to hear the evidence!
It’s ridiculous to say an officer hyped on adrenaline and stress would not miss his target. Police frequently miss their targets.
Actually Officer Wilson is an experienced and decorated officer for the police department.. Just sayin..
Ben Carson recently said “Young men raised with no respect for authority will end up victims of violence”. It’s just a fantasy of mine, but I wish we had a genuine dialogue about this shooting where the media honestly describes BOTH sides of this issue. Are there SOME police officers who use excessive force? Yes. Are there SOME people who put themselves in harms way because they don’t respect the authority of the police? Yes. So why doesn’t the media discuss both aspects of this problem? Thanks for your article – you provide us with a lot to think about. I just ordered “Proof of our Resolve” and downloaded it to my Kindle.
Jeff,
Thanks for the comment, and I hope you enjoy Proof. Please let me know what you think. And be brutally honest, I can take it. :)
Absolutely the greatest fabrication I ever heard. First of all Michael brown was charged with any shoplifting or bs robbery. It has not been confirmed that he was the person in the video. Furthermore these alleged items were not found on him after his execution.
Next bs topic, he admitted to not stopping him for this alleged theft. He also didn’t have a description of the so called robber. He saw two black guys in the street and it started from there!
Next bs topic, why did he leave the scene? Why wasn’t pictures of this bruised and broken eye socket taken that day? Why did it take 7 days for this info to surface, like his so called witness?
Next bs topic, just because your 6’4 and 280 it doesn’t give police the right to open fire. There seems to be a culture of shoot when scared w/o the attempt of using pepper spray or an asp. Country wide shooting of unarmed people is out of control. Using deadly force on unarmed citizens is a last resort when all else fails. Shoot first mentality is the new mantra in urban neighborhoodd.
Bottom line if you’re scared and can’t differentiate deadly force from everyday job duties….RETIRE and stop killing people because they’re big and scaring. Last time I checked I don’t see big scary white guys being gunned done by law enforcement and most of the criminal bikers fit that mold.
Out of control? Really? You, like all of the other race baiters, have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s not “out of control”. Quit watching so much cable news and read a book. Also – funny how tough guys like you are hiding behind the internet. You wouldn’t last a day as a police officer. Quit being a major league a–hole and show a little respect. Guys like you whine about cops but they’ll be the first people you call when you’re in trouble.
Michael, don’t be obtuse. Even Michael’s FAMILY says that was Michael in that video.
As for your claim of opening fire on a thug simply for being 6’4″ and 300 pounds, numerous witnesses (of which neither you nor I are) say that Michael charged at him to attack him — AGAIN.
You need to get educated and quit spreading your ignorance across the web.
You can’t charge dead people. Big stature does not equal deadly force correct. Big stature punching you in the face, charging you and attempting to grab you firearm escalates the situation. using the reasonable person standard which is the test set forth by the suprem court for deadly force, answer what do you think was the intent. And give your self a split second to think about it. Or you can sit back and Monday morning quarter back.
I stopped reading your response when I realized the grammar and spelling were so poor, but I went back to it because I’m always intrigued by what the misinformed have to say. As for big white guys not getting gunned down – they are gunned down everyday when they behave violently or with threat or malice. You just don’t read about it in the news or on the internet because the white community doesn’t hide behind “fabricated charges of racism” as a catalyst for rioting and looting. Only the black community is responsible for holding back the black community. Al Sharpton knows this. He counts on it actually. All your ill-begotten angst keeps him “employed.” The race baiters are using Ferguson as a means to stay relevant. I can see you clearly drank the Kool-Aid by your BS argument that simply cannot be substantiated by any real evidence. As for witnesses, are you talking about the one who was convicted a few years back for providing false testimony? Yeah, I’m sure his word is as good as gold. You are doing a disservice to the millions of respectable African Americans who call the US home.
That’s how Mal Evans, who was the Beatles’ roadie from 1961 until their breakup, was killed. He was a big guy at 6′ 6″, and he was shot by police in 1976 while under the influence of drugs. Granted, he was armed. But here’s a classic case of a “big white guy” getting gunned down by cops.
And as for not using pepper spray, Michael, maybe you didn’t read the whole blog post. But there isn’t often TIME to test all of the options. What, do you think the conversation goes like this?
Perp: “I’m gonna kill you, cop.”
Cop: “Okay. Wait, let me get out my pepper spray. Okay, GO!”
[rush]
Cop: “Wait, wait, that didn’t work. Okay, go back and let me try my taser.”
Perp: “Okay. Ready? I’m gonna kill you, cop!”
Cop: “I’m gonna TAZE YOU, BRO!”
[rush]
Cop: “Aw, man, that didn’t work either. Okay go back. I’m gonna have to shoot you, dude. Sorry.”
Michael,
“Absolutely the greatest fabrication I ever heard. First of all Michael brown was charged with any shoplifting or bs robbery. It has not been confirmed that he was the person in the video. Furthermore these alleged items were not found on him after his execution.”
Well, I guess Dorian Johnson was lying when he admitted he and Brown stole the cigars from the convenience store. This quote is from the Boston Globe: “A lawyer for Johnson said that his client was interviewed by the FBI and the St. Louis County Police last week for nearly four hours. In that interview, Johnson admitted that he and Brown had stolen cigarillos from the store, said the lawyer, Freeman R. Bosley Jr.”
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/08/19/missouri-shooting-accounts-differ-holder-schedules-visit/Obj6jwcimy73EkrE30TMGM/story.html
Theft + force = robbery.
“Next bs topic, why did he leave the scene?”
Please produce any law or policy that states a police officer must remain at the scene of a shooting for a specified amount of time. If he left the scene immediately after the shooting, without waiting for backup and supervisors to arrive, then there’s a problem. If he stayed there until other officers arrived and took over, then there’s nothing immoral or illegal about leaving the scene to either get medical attention or give a statement to investigators.
“Why wasn’t pictures of this bruised and broken eye socket taken that day?”
Who says they weren’t?
“Why did it take 7 days for this info to surface, like his so called witness?”
Probably for the same reason the robbery video didn’t surface right away. Information isn’t released immediately in any investigation. In this case I think it should have been, but it wasn’t.
“Next bs topic, just because your 6’4 and 280 it doesn’t give police the right to open fire.”
That’s absolutely correct, police can’t shoot someone just because they’re large and strong. Brown wasn’t shot simply because of his size. If my perception of events is correct, Brown was shot because he was presenting a lethal threat to the officer. That is nowhere near the same thing as shooting someone just because they’re 6’4″ and 280.
“There seems to be a culture of shoot when scared w/o the attempt of using pepper spray or an asp. Country wide shooting of unarmed people is out of control. Using deadly force on unarmed citizens is a last resort when all else fails. Shoot first mentality is the new mantra in urban neighborhood.”
I don’t think it is, but I can see the perception. Do you have any stats on how often officers shoot unarmed suspects? This came up in an earlier comment, and it’s a good question.
“Bottom line if you’re scared and can’t differentiate deadly force from everyday job duties….RETIRE and stop killing people because they’re big and scaring. Last time I checked I don’t see big scary white guys being gunned done by law enforcement and most of the criminal bikers fit that mold.”
A black police officer killed an unarmed 20 year old white male in Utah two days after Brown was killed. Thus far, no riots or media attention.
I agree
Your an idiot and im assuming black because your extremely bias, first off it clearly was Michael Brown in the scene your just un capable of admitting the truth if you think otherwise and he did steal and then push around the clerk. Second, im sure your referring to him seeing two black guys in the street as somehow the officer looking to harass some black kids, if this officer wanted to shoot some random black kid why would it take him 6 years into his service to do it genius. Third, he left the scene bc a bunch of ppl who clearly from what we have been seeing get furious over something they know nothing about, they just side w/their race instead of listen to facts. Fourth, being 6’4 290 doesn’t give an officer the right to open fire, but your life in much more danger w/a man that size, the man could easily knock you out take your gun and shoot you which sounds like what he was intending to do. And fifth people of all races get gunned down all the time you just don’t hear about it bc the media doesn’t get as high of ratings and whites don’t have race baiters bitching and whining all the time. Look up facts on white vs black crime, blacks are 50 times more likely to attack someone white than vice versa. Know what your talking about before who start rambling.
Wow tunnel vision much? Anyone can cherry pick any information they like from all types of sources they choose. also by throwing out hypothetical or possibilities does not change the facts that are know on the ground. Anyone can color their prejudice or opinions to their liking and justification. However he obviously did not use the USE of FORCE doctrine and he failed to de-escalate the situation. Killed someone on their knees 35+ feet away. I don’t see how that would be justified in a combat zone let alone in the streets on America.
Obviously? Obvious to whom? And you know the boy was on his knees huh? That’s amazing that you’re getting information before the rest of the media. Show your sources. Oh wait, that’s right you don’t have any.
Well it’s nice to see that Sam’s post just backed up what the Author was trying to say. Who’s the one with tunnel vision now? Let’s face it, Sam. You made up your mind about this case long before any evidence was presented. In your head, OJ is innocent too. Give me a break! There is not one ounce of information provided in your response that can be corroborated by any witness or forensic evidence. Who’s prejudiced now?
Your argument would be good if it was verified and it is not. The bullet in the top of the head could also be incurred while lunging at a shooter having incurred several wounds and falling head first. I would say the one in the neck area had something to do with the falling. The shots in the arem while the arm is raised and nobody has explained why the arm did not come down after the first one it it was ever raised at all
Please provide some verification for your claim that Brown was on his knees 35+ feet away.
See, in America, police prefer to use guns vs non-lethal force. Over in the UK, their police can bring down a armed suspect who is drunk with a single shot to the leg.
Which country in the UK are you talking about? I ask because only officers in Northern Ireland are permitted to carry guns. As for England, Scotland, and Wales (collectively known as Great Britain) officers are not permitted to carry fire arms unless in an extreme situation or special circumstances. Furthermore, are you an American or are you from the UK? This is relevant because if you are from the UK then it would make sense to me that you know nothing about what transpires between US police officers and suspects. Have you ever watched the TV show Cops? If so, you would see that most officers go out of their way to use non-lethal force. The alternative results in far too much paperwork. If you are an American, then I would have to ask you to please cite your references regarding the scenario you described above. Oh and for the record, COUNTLESS armed, American suspects have been stopped with a single bullet to the leg (or any other body part for that matter). We just don’t report on every single incident because frankly, it isn’t news. However, in the (majority of the) UK where the use of a gun is forbidden, I could see where they might think the story you just told would be news worthy.
Tristan, I have read a lot of your replies so far and your logical gaps are legion. The fact that you claimed to disregard someones comments due to grammar is also telling. What promoted me to chime in though is that you referenced the show “Cops” as if it proves anything other than police officers on TV use more common sense and show more restrain for the obvious reason. The same reason that body cameras are being proposed and have worked to reduce reports of police brutality/excessive force in the areas they have been tried thus far. Lastly, if you are going to try to brow beat someone with a point, then don’t resort to hyperbole with claims that countless suspects have been stopped with a single bullet. I am glad that your point appears to be that Americans are much more dangerous and in need of shooting than our friends across the atlantic.If that wasn’t your point then please let us know why they control violent criminals with non lethal force and we don’t. I’ve wondered that many times and you answer could shed needed light.
Keith, in answer to your question, per capita, they have much fewer violent criminals. But the biggest reason is that in other countries they still have “Respect” for Law Enforcement. In America, we have become a country that allows our criminals to have more rights than our victims.
Amen
Jason,
You haven’t provided any more information about the incident you’re referring to, but I’d bet the drunk wasn’t charging the officer when the officer fired. Shooting a stationary person in the leg from a safe distance is feasible; shooting a charging, very large and aggressive suspect in the leg isn’t.
Not to mention in no law enforcement entity in the entire United States teaches officers to wound a subject…. As you stated they shoot until the threat has been stopped.
No. In America, police use guns when lethal force is warranted, and don’t use guns when lethal force is not warranted.
You’d be a moron to expect them to do anything else. Using a lethal weapon to shoot someone in the leg is dangerous and stupid. Basic rule of gun safety: Never, ever aim a loaded gun at a person you don’t intend to kill.
No matter who is right or wrong, a life was needlessly wasted. Why carry stun guns and pepperspray if you’re not going to use them?
This is a police country.
Nice of you to totally ignore the fact that this punk tried to strong-arm the gun away from this officer, attacked him, and then came BACK to attack him yet again. If you could do better, then why don’t you get out of your mom’s basement and get a real job and show these cops how it’s done.
Solid Snake – ummm, so we can all assume you didn’t read the article in its entirety. The matter of tasers and pepperspray was clearly addressed by the Author.
The author also said that guns aren’t 100% effectively either, right before saying less-than-lethal weapons aren’t 100% effective.
Needlessly wasted? Yes, Brown most certainly chose to waste his life as a thug. Do you honestly believe he was going to settle down & be a good, productive contributor to society? By 18 y/o, he had already decided that he could walk into a store & take what he wanted–and to further prove his thugliness he threw his weight around while doing it. (fact) He also decided that when an officer gives one an order as simple as removing oneself from the road that said officer should be subjected to bodily harm. He then decided he could just walk away. Then he decided, once again, when given an order from a police officer, that instead of using words he should charge the officer. (witnessed) I can only speculate, but I’m pretty sure his intention at that point was to put an end to the officer’s life. After all, the only way he was going to be free of the charges for the robbery & assaulting the officer was to take the officer out & hope no one figured out who did it. He was likely relying on Johnson & his townspeople to stay mum. (as many of them are with their stories-unlike the anonymous guy on tape). Yes, I realize there is blatant conjecture in my statements as to what actually happened & I will retract them if the officer is proven guilty.
I know his family loved him, but who else is mourning his loss? There are people mourning the fact that a young, potentially productive human being “needlessly wasted” his own life by turning to a life of crime. They are mourning the state of our country where this is becoming more prevalent. Those blacks who are trying to shake stereotypes, are educated & have made a way for themselves are mourning that once again their race is being smeared and brought down by a thug. Every accomplishment they have worked for has been just lost a bit of glimmer. Black mothers are mourning the fact that their children will live in fear of stronger stereotypes & stigmas because yet another ignorant, cocky, angry man has once again stained the reputation of their people. Whites, Latinos, Asians, Middle Easterners have watched this story & the actions of the townspeople unfold & are living in a little more fear of thugly looking black males. I live less that 200 miles from Ferguson & every single law enforcement officer I know is now a bit more fearful of retaliation. Particularly the white ones are because the racism is reversed. It has gone as far as changing their names & the names of their wives & kids on Facebook so they are unable to be stalked or identified. MLK, Jr. had a dream. His dream included black people being peaceful. The action of one can effect many.
What really irks me is this situation was made about race. There was nothing racial here-until Ferguson & NAACP decided to make it racial. The fact the officer was white & the suspect black was completely irrelevant. Unless the jury and evidence proves otherwise: Solely, the actions of Brown were the means to his end.
The only reason “their race is being smeared” is because people like you chose to judge an entire race based on the actions of an individual.
“What really irks me is this situation was made about race.” You made it about race when you said ,”Every accomplishment they have worked for has been just lost a bit of glimmer.”
I was directed here for an objective opinion.
What I received is an opinion by an officer protecting the actions of another officer.
No surprise here.
I’ll move along now.
Ah, so what you meant was “I didn’t find an opinion that matched my own, because that’s really all I’m interested in.”
Got it. Thanks.
No gramby, that is not what he/she said. Read it again and think on it while not pissed off.
”In 2012 an unarmed 17 year old beat an El Paso police officer to death. The officer was 29 years old, a former Marine and veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan. ” ….. which has NOTHING to do with Michael Brown, so I’m not even going to bother with the rest of your post.
Did you see who he primarily writes for? Breach bang clear is a site targeted at veterans. So get off your high horse.
Art,
Your call. If you actually read the essay, you’d see that I was using the El Paso incident and others to prove that unarmed people can be a lethal threat. That was one of the main points of my essay.
Just to get it straight, this guy’s version of events is: a shot was fired while Wilson was in the car **maybe** scuffling with Brown for a weapon, and then a shot was fired, so Michael Brown ran away, but then, for some reason, chose to turn around and charge the officer, who just drew a gun and fired a shot? No fucking way do I believe that. Why would an unarmed man choose to bum rush a cop with a gun drawn on him? There’s no way. And again, my earlier point: Wilson could have gotten in the car (or rather, stayed in the fucking car if “an unarmed man is so dangerous” as this guy claims) and either locked the doors and called for backup, or just driven away! Plus, this guy admits he’s a cop, so that bias shouldn’t even be considered. They’re all part of a brotherhood that will never admit fault on their part, as we can obviously see with the St. Louis and Ferguson police relentlessly covering up for one of their own. This guy says he’s waiting for evidence. Did you guys ever think that if Wilson was innocent we’d have seen some evidence by now? Nearly a month after the original incident occurred? Hmmmmm. Instead, we have lies, conflicting reports, and militarized police terrorizing citizens. The absence of rightful action is just as much an indication of wrongdoing.
James,
You’re projecting rational thought onto everyone, when obviously not everyone is rational. If everyone acted rationally we’d never have crime at all, would we?
And as far as never admitting fault on the part of the police, I beg to differ. Three guys I’ve worked with have been charged with rape on duty and two of them went to prison, because they were guilty.
Why does it have to be stated that a “black” teenager was shot by a “white” cop??? How about a teenager was shot by a cop? Thats what happened. Leave race and color out of it.
I like this post. The only reason for lableing anyone in any crime is to inflame those whom already hate said group.
Exactly!!! The only time race needs to come into lay is when it is relevant & being used as a descriptive for identity of a criminal, victim or patient such as: A 3 ft, white girl with brown eyes & black hair last seen wearing aping shirt & chartreuse pants is missing.
Much interesting banter going back and forth. I live in the area, and am of the mind to ignore everyone’s opinions, and just wait until all the facts are in. I’m sure there’s those that will argue that the facts, when made public, will argue that they were fabricated. But over time the facts will come out. My biggest concern is if the theory that Micheal Brown was proven to be aggressively charging the police officer is proven to be reality it will set off another round of violence and looting. The sad fact is that it doesn’t seem like anyone in the area cares one bit about the facts as all are forming opinions, and acting on them, before any know what really happened.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/ferguson-st-louis-police-tactics-dogs-michael-brown
I think that brown was an 18 y/o kid who got very large and thought he could throw his weight around ,at shop owners and police and he probably got what he deserved , one less thug in ferguson,as far as this man can see
Thank you
Except for the part where he “robbed” the store………he didn’t…watch the tapes……..the employees also never reported a robbery…a customer thought they witnessed it but there was no theft…the employees would have reported it……..Not that any of this matters…also the reports about the cop being beat up came out a week after the incident…why wasn’t that a huge story first…THAT seems kind of important and a prevalent fact that puts things into perspective
“A lawyer for Johnson said that his client was interviewed by the FBI and the St. Louis County Police last week for nearly four hours. In that interview, Johnson admitted that he and Brown had stolen cigarillos from the store, said the lawyer, Freeman R. Bosley Jr.”
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/08/19/missouri-shooting-accounts-differ-holder-schedules-visit/Obj6jwcimy73EkrE30TMGM/story.html
Theft + force = robbery.
If John was pushed to the ground and relieved of his wallet, I’m sure he would call 911 with a shoplifting report.
I really wish people who “know everything” could ride with a cop in an inner city and see what it’s like. I would never speak on behalf of the black community, pretending I had an understanding of it, but that rationale certainly doesn’t deter cop-haters. They know everything about crime stats, shot placement, investigation procedures..
There is always so much debate over who did what, in what circumstances. Why not simply equip the police with video recording equipment on their uniforms so that there can be no debate?
Incidents will continue to occur, people will continue to speculate unless there is evidence rather than rumour. Are all police good, or all police bad? Neither. I’ve met to types and they’re all human. If you want to remove the speculation then record the events and review it as evidence.
You are correct. Michael had a lot on his mind that day and just boosted a box of cigars by force, He was minding his own business strolling down the travel portion of the highway 15 minutes later and when confronted by the police to move to the sidewalk he attacked the cop. Nothing wrong so far. He thumps the cop and tries to get his gun and when the cop retains possession of the gun Michael runs, I don’t think there was any shot, because there was not, Michael decides to return and probably make the man pay a little. Are you with me? Seven shots ring out and four times he was probably hit in the right arm that slowed him momentarily, there is a pause and he continues and the last four shots were two to the head and torso. You are not crazy about this scenario, but adults realize that if you attack a cop there is a distinct possibility if they are in fear of their life they will kill you.
Oh yes, the cop could have rolled up his windows and drove away, Michael could have gone to the sidewalk and said “Sorry Officer.” He would have lived to rob another day.
Nakor,
I agree, I think we need body cameras. This incident will probably push many departments to issue everyone cameras.
“Police officers are trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized.” Perhaps the entire lot of you should be fired and replaced by people with more responsible training. I’m disgusted with your excuses.
Barbara,
Fair enough. But please explain how we should handle lethal threats, since you seem to know better than we do.
Barbara, what is wrong with you? My husband is a police officer and made a promise long ago to always come home. (Yes I know that life happens and one day he may not be able to keep that promise, but I know he will always try.) dear Barbara let’s say a man breaks into your home and is about to rape you. In reach you have a newspaper and a gun. Will you A. Strike him on the nose with a newspaper or B. Grab said gun and fire until one of two things happens, either you run out of bullets or his carcass hits the floor? I for one will choose B. Now as far as this whole incidence being a “black/white” thing PLEASE!!!! This is about right and wrong. Wrong was Brown robbing the store and “strong arming” the little man. Wrong was Brown not obeying and respecting the officer. Wrong was the rioting and burning down property after. Wrong is the assumption that Brown couldn’t possibly do wrong. First he is a teenager. They have magical thinking, such as they are immortal. Also if a teenager is talking more than likely they are lying! I for one like the authors message of he doesn’t know what really happened only his opinion. Which I completely agree with. This country is too worried about political correctness and not offending someone than they are with truth and justice. Oh and to the author of this article: thank you for your service!!!! I don’t know you but I love you for what you stand for and for standing up for us even though some don’t appreciate it.
I have an even better idea Barbara, please find enough personnel to fill a police department or all of them with more responsible shooters.. If you ask me a man with one eye able to direct 4-6 effective shots on subject supposedly rushing back at the officer seems pretty well trained to me..
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE!!!!
For any police or emergency responders in the crowd. I listened to the first 30 minutes of the 911 tapes (they are online so you can too). I honestly did not hear anything about a shooting in that time. I heard nothing about an ambulance either. The dispatcher is asked for and sends multiple units for requested crowd control. The dispatcher asked if anyone knew anything about an officer involved shooting that was being reported by the news and no one responded so she continued on with her dispatching duties. Can you find evidence of proper procedures being followed following an officer involved shooting and an assaulted officer? Wouldn’t a suspect laying in the street after being shot 8 times require an ambulance? Even if it was just to pronounce death?
Keith,
Yes an ambulance should have been dispatched. I haven’t listened to the tapes, but if the EMS call wasn’t on air (others have said it was), then I’d assume EMS was dispatched by computer rather than radio. I can’t think of a situation where I wouldn’t call EMS to treat or pronounce someone I just shot.
http://www.ems1.com/paramedic-chief/video/1965888-EMS-Chief-What-EMS-crews-experienced-the-first-day-of-the-Ferguson-shooting/
I read the entire article and have to say that it was well written. I have not paid attention to the reports or information that has been presented by cable news outlets. I think the people commenting on the article arguing that your accounts are not what happened do not understand that this is simply an article explaining what might have happened, not a definitive report and explanation of what did happen. Wouldnt mind some federal agency investigations into the law enforcement of Cameron County Texas where I live and neighboring Hidalgo County. Dont know if you are familiar with the Panama Unit, I don’t even know if that story got national attention. It is a different region of the country with a whole different set of issues.
Let the facts emerge. The prosecutor Bob McCullah has chosen to try his case in a court of law rather than in the media. It is quite possible that 12 well documented versions of the story that fit the forensics and ballistics will turn out to be more credible than three interviews of witnesses that don’t match, even each other. I also believe that the St. Louis County police department and neighboring police departments will be vindicated in their use of SWAT teams and measured force. While the national media portrayed Riot scenes and mass violence in reality the whole incident was confined to between six and 10 blocks then there was a lot of police officers and on the other side of those officers where the millions of people in the St. Louis area that appreciated the job they were doing in confining it. While they were between 300 and 1000 people rioting in front of the police there were 50,000 attending the cardinal game 15 minutes away from there. While the residents rioted and caused many problems in their own little area it was confined to that area no one else was killed and there were very few injuries, it could’ve been a whole lot worse. Now it seems everyone is getting their hand out the losses will emerge trying to sue Ferguson for 200 million the one witness hiring for Freenan Bosley Junior and now he’s a victim I wonder how much he’s going to ask far.
In my opinion, anyone collaborating with idiotic ideas presented by this officers alleged argument are just as corrupt as the office involved in the crime. If you’d gone over the autopsy description, it clearly stated that Brown’s clothing was never retrieved from the Police Department. Why are they still holding Brown’s clothing, maybe to fabricate evidence? Six shots hit him, four to his side, and two to the head, one of which went thru his eye socket? Now just a question of common sense how could he still charge after a blow like that to his skull? His body also lay on the ground over 4 hours. If it was legit then, why was the coroner and ems not immediately dispatched out to the scene? If he apprehended the officer, why was a backup call not initiated? If the officer felt threatened by this over sized man, then why did he not call for backup, then go forth to apprehend the suspect? And had Michael commited robbery he would have to have stolen merchandise valued over 300 dollars. If it was such a big issue, and the store owner thought Michael was such a threat, why was there no 911 call from the store clerk or owner? And how come the first disabling, non-fatal blow was not fired to stop him from charging. Also isn’t it ironic how a call came into dispatch from an “unknown unbiased anonymous caller” as the officer stood on the scene with a body lying on the ground, with 7 bullet wounds? I forgot to mention according to the autopsy 6 bullets penetrated Brown, but the 7th bullet brazed him. If any one here had common sense they would realize the writer of this story used a very simple techniqe taught in English 102. It’s a class you take when studying Gen Ed. The instructor had us watch a movie and capture distinct details of the movie and we had to basically twist the details of the story to make it as though the director was prejudice and biased not necessarily dealing with race, but all types of prejudice. This author of this story just fed the crowd a dream. Based on his opinion Brown’s friends were bias, but the caller was not. Not to state the obvious, but he’s going to make Brown look suspect, because it would just be sickening to think of our sworn protector as a prejudice assailant, or even just a trigger happy idiot. If he was justified in his actions, he would have came forth, but in my opinion, and understand this is just my opinion “fact” he was a decorated officer, but there is a likely chance he let either his fear or rage get the best of him in this particular situation. It should have been handled better, Brown did not deserve to die we should not be allowed to decide who lives or dies, and for the author of this article, it is very ignorant of you to say Brown knew he was going down for a more serious crime, not everyone is as knowledgeable as you or other officers when it comes to the judicial system. It would be stupid to assume so. Before you form opinions on one particular situation because you’re are part of law enforcement or are pro-law take a walk in his families, communities, even his friends shoes, and see it from their side. Because evidentally everyone is going to say the officer did his job, or was justified by his action’s until their family or themselves fall victim to a situation such as this.
“… and for the author of this article, it is very ignorant of you to say Brown knew he was going down for a more serious crime, not everyone is as knowledgeable as you or other officers when it comes to the judicial system. It would be stupid to assume so.”
Yes, that’s obviously true. You proved it when you said “And had Michael commited robbery he would have to have stolen merchandise valued over 300 dollars.” Robbery doesn’t depend on the amount of property or money stolen, it’s the a theft of anything by force. If someone walks up to you on the street, punches you and takes a $150 pair of sunglasses, is that not robbery?
“Six shots hit him, four to his side, and two to the head, one of which went thru his eye socket? Now just a question of common sense how could he still charge after a blow like that to his skull? ”
Nobody said he was still charging after the head shots. Most likely, the arm/side shots were first, and the head shots stopped him. And by “brazed” I’m assuming you mean grazed. A grazing shot would likely have no effect at all.
“Before you form opinions on one particular situation because you’re are part of law enforcement or are pro-law take a walk in his families, communities, even his friends shoes, and see it from their side.”
Good advice. Shouldn’t it also apply to you?
What really is scary is the fact that an officer has 5 seconds to decide if some person is allegedly a lethal threat to him or anyone else or not. That really is a big choice to make, isn’t it? I am just wondering, what kind of person one has to be to get the right idea of the situation. You have to be so experienced, calm and objective not to shoot an innocent person. If an officer is having a bad day, already angry and agitated, how can he tell what really a lethal threat is? It takes so much to be a good police officer, to take right decisions in just few seconds.
I am not from the US, that is why I am not even giving my opinion about this particular situation out of respect. It just makes me think again that all depends on our personal choices. The author of this article gave very good evidence, but emotions of both parties are not given enough attention. And no evidence will show the state of mind of both parties (the only proof). In our hectic world we all need peace of mind (and often – proffessional psychological help) to take right decision at some important moments of our lifes. But when you are armed and (legally) able to take someone’s life in a few seconds – damn, what kind of smar and wise man you have to be to make it right? I don’t know… I wouldn’t be able to take such a responsibility on a daily basis.
My point is that police officers need serious psychological supervision, they need it even more then shooting training. Their position gives them much power, some of them are not mature and can’t handle this responsibility. I believe this is partially the point in Ferguson case as well.
Give a man enough time they can rationalize anything. People of color no longer trust cops.
Do we know yet if Officer Wilsons car was fitted with recording equipment? Although the video may not show anything the audio may give some ideas of what happened, inc number and timing of shots fired.
I have no idea, but if it wasn’t I bet Wilson really wished it had been.
Im not a cop..actually i am a felon. young and stupid BUT, however ppl think cops “just shoot cuz they can” no thats not true. I have been rounds with cops myself, dont care for alot of them, but however,He was 11)% correct in what he did. He did you watch the video’s attached? I mean come on.. A cop is just supposed to stand there and take a beating to protect what others might say about them? thats fucked up.Cops are people to.they too have families they are trying to make it home to every night. and yes even unarmed ppl can be dangerous. in some cases even more so then an armed one. My father is 5’7 and at the time maybe 150lbs. UNARMED, decided he wanted to charge at another man. (other man was no cop) the other man shot him with a 12 gauge . About 8 ft away. It went in the left leg. You would think it would have stopped him huh?? wrong! all it did is further piss my father off. he was still charging. Got shot again. Through the right hand. Still unarmed but still not stopping. Picked up a blunt object off the floor, now hes armed. Got shot again in the stomache. still didnt go down. shot again and finally went down. only because it caught his lung. He is still alive. You would think he learned his lesson..NOPE he sure didnt. The other man got off on ALL charges.The media makes it seems like an non police officer is okay if he shoots another but god forbid if a cop does it then its a riot because then the cop must have been a racist or this or that. ONLY IDIOTS believe this crap. Its same situation as my father all except brown was not as lucky as my father, and he lost his life. Its called,brown done wrong,he knew he did wrong but didnt want to pay the piper for those wrongs. As for the cop “leaving the scene” some times a cop does have to go. The last thing they set out to do is shoot and kill a boy.Im sure the cop was an emotional wreck. Cops do have feeling s too people. Damn lighten up and put yourself in the cops shoes with “WHAT REALLY HAPPENED” and see if you would react differently. You would have probably done the same thing. As for on “The shield” yep I watch that too and in case you didn’t know, “IT’S IN THE SCRIPT” it is not reality tv. You must be one that believes anything you watch or hear. I mean seriously if that was the case, I watch criminal minds and csi and law and order. I should be able to kill and hide the body well at this point. Get real dude! Face the fact IT IS NOT ALWAYS THE COPS FAULT! yes there are some crooked cops but more cops that do take their job seriously then not. GET ! 100% facts before you run your mouth.
Well for all you who say it was not Michael in the video. Let me clear this up for you. His buddy that was with him that day has admitted it was himself and Michael in the store. So, it has been confirmed that Michael was the one being the bully. Now for the really interesting part. I live in the area where all this took place. It is sad. It is very sad. I have friends who live square in the middle of all of it and were worried about there homes and families. And why. Because a bunch of BUTTHEADS…yes..I said it…BUTTHEADS…decided that because they couldn’t wait for the truth they would destroy a town. I was raised with this …. There are 3 sides to every story. Your side, their side and the truth is in the middle. And guess what…The truth will come out. And when it does, I am afraid it is going to get ugly around here again. Maybe instead of finding guilt in people prior to knowing all the facts, you might be able to get these BUTTHEADS to quit killing each other. Black on Black crime here is AWFUL…but do you think any of you have said a word on it? NO…Not you, not the news, not the race baiters that came to the funeral…NOT ONE…Why not worry about what matters..and that is getting the truth..good or bad and get these kids a future…my rant is now over.
Chris,
You’re always a great read. Once again you stuck blogger gold, even if you didn’t mean to. I found your blog thoughtful, logical, and concise. I also see most people are clueless.
stay safe………
Thanks Frank!
In reading this article and then the comments section, I must say, you are one classy gent, Chris Hernandez. Thank you for this well written article and your service. God bless.
Thank you Tatiana, I appreciate that.
Reblogged this on Sonoran Switchback and commented:
Th other side
Nothing to comment. I simply wanted to say Thank You, Officer Hernandez
Stay safe
Dear Chris appreciate your opinion, but you should have saved it. I am a 29 year veteran of policing, served undercover, served as a Chief routinely conduct officer involved shooting investigations as a consultant, and as much as your comments are valid in many instances, you put your own little bias on them. Unarmed people certainly kill, but law enforcement officers are bound by law, you know that silly thing called use of force. Just because someone unarmed might , or has killed someone somewhere has no relevance to the issue of a specific shooting, Ferguson Mo or otherwise. police encounter criminals everyday, felons, but just because they are felons doesn’t give the officers the right to shoot them. Look I appreciate you standing up for cops, policing is a tough business , not easy and not everyone can do it. But this whole arguement is off on tangents. Police supporters use very excuse to explain why The Ferguson shooting was ok, the non-supporters use every excuse to explain why it wasn’t. Leave this for the investigation. All of us need to stop generalizing, it doesn’t aid in resolving the issue. The facts of the case, this case, will determine the outcome as it does in every other case. Stay safe.
Ross,
I’m not saying the shooting was okay. What I’m saying is, based on the little bit of information we have, is that I *think* Wilson was justified in using deadly force. That’s very clear in my essay.
Also, nowhere in my essay did I claim we can shoot someone just because he’s a felon. I’ve stated in my comments that I’ve never shot anyone as a cop, or even tried to. And I’ve made at least hundreds of arrests, including tons of felonies.
As a 29 years veteran, i would have hoped you have read Mr. Hernandez’s essay in its entirety. None of the points your bring up did Chris mention nor did he try to argue. I question the validity of your actual LE background.
Ross,
I strongly doubt you served as a chief based on your statements. If you did, I sure hope you are a former chief.
The only fact here is that being an officer you act as a fraternity. .. sure there’s a chance he is innocent… I have to believe that you of course would have your brothers back…I hope you can understand that the police don’t always have ours… I was pulled over after returning to my driveway an d n giving several tickets by an officer… I fought the tickets is court with their video evidence which showed the claims where bogus and still was giving the fines and was forced to fake drivers safety courses to save the points on my license… I have always been a safe driver and was extremely disturbed his word was stronger than video evidence…. tooo tooo many times badges become shields both for officers and other gov. Officials and too many times the protection of the people gets forfeited for the protection of the gang, club, and fraternity of police.
It’s easy to justify killing an unarmed civilian when you are in the position of power… Yeah, things could go wrong, but you chose a dangerous job… Non LEO’s can’t just go around shooting unarmed people because they are affraid or because they might beat them to death or because they might be on drugs… Officer safety has taken priority over everything and it is used to suspend civil rights, shoot unarmed people and kill family pets… The data is all there and America is becoming a Police State.
Carlos,
In this case nobody shot Brown simply because Brown was big and they were afraid. That’s a deliberate misrepresentation of events.
Actually Carlos, yes, at least in Ohio, non LEO’s can shoot someone if they are afraid for their life. I have a conceal carry license in Ohio. In Ohio, if you are carrying, and someone threatens your life, you first have an obligation to retreat. If retreating isn’t an option, and you fear for your life, you can defend yourself with deadly force – whether the other person is armed or not. Now, that doesn’t mean I am going to draw on anybody that threatens me. Nor do I walk around with a chip on my shoulder looking for trouble. I have no desire to shoot anyone. If my assailant is 5′ 2″ and weighs 130lbs, I will roll the dice and take my chances defending myself without my weapon. But if that assailant is 6′ 2″ and 300lbs – and I honestly fear for my life – my assailant will get a full clip center mass. No hesitation. No shooting to wound. If I’m in a situation where the gun has to come out, I will shoot to survive and eliminate the threat. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
An officer shooting as published and sensationalized as this in the media will get thoroughly investigated. And if the officer is found to have used deadly force when it was not warranted, then I fully support the prosecution of that officer to the fullest extent of the law. But, as Chris has stated several times in this blog, we don’t have all the facts. None of us were there. We only have what the media has chosen to tell us. And the media can be a little biased. If the officer is tried, convicted, and punished – justice is served. If the officer is exonerated, all we will hear about is how crooked the justice system is. How racists the investigators were. Regardless of what the facts are. We don’t prosecute, judge, convict, and punish people in the court of public opinion. We judge them in a court of law. And more times than not, the court usually gets it right.
This “dose of reality” would be more palpable if it didn’t include completely fraudulent information. Officer Wilson didn’t fracture his eye, that was a lie invented by an internet troll who used stock photography.
Officer Wilson didn’t file an incident report, so we have no idea what his story is. You’re basing your opinion on nothing but your experience and your mistrust of the stories being told. How is that “reality?”
I can’t type a long reply at the moment, but I didn’t claim he had that injury. I said “maybe”. At the time I wrote this we had one unconfirmed report of that injury. Now we have one unconfirmed refutation. Which makes the injury unconfirmed. If you have something besides Don Lemon’s unnamed source confirming the injury never happened, please share it.
And yes, there is an incident report. I can guarantee it hasn’t been completed, but every police shooting requires an incident report.
You’re claiming, as an officer of the law, that a false claim with no evidence to support it is an “unconfirmed injury” because the refutation was also “unconfirmed?”
There was nothing to refute. An internet troll made the claim using a stock photo.
Saying it’s unconfirmed isn’t supporting it. I hadn’t read the report about it being completely made up. Link please.
This is the most level-headed article that I have read about this incident. Well said sir, we need more people like you in the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWbQ3xOazNU Should of they shot this guy?
It should be noted the Ferguson Police now admit Officer Wilson fired at Brown as he was running away.
“As Officer Wilson got out of his car, the men were running away. The officer fired his weapon but did not hit anyone, according to law enforcement officials.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us/shooting-accounts-differ-as-holder-schedules-visit.html?ref=us&_r=1
That article didn’t name the law enforcement officials who made that statement. That really needs to be verified. If Wilson shot at Brown as Brown was running away, that can’t be defended.
officer Wilson does himself, his Police Department and his community no service when he makes statements like, I am not a racist I’ll shoot anyone”!
Unfortunately he comes off as a trigger happy cop. I do agree with the facts that Michael Brown and his friend were thugs who felt above the law for some reason. No one just decides to walk into a store grab some cigars and toss the owner or clerk around a bit, on a spur of the moment. This was a learned behavior and something he had obviously done in the past. But of course everyone who knew him will describe him as a choir boy who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and was getting ready to go to college.
I am not condoning the Police action in Ferguson. Police are trained to defuse acts of violence and lethal force is suppose to be a last resort. How can an officer be at risk when the offender is running away. I cannot see a robbery of a package of cigars a shooting offense. yes it is a robbery but hardly one that should result in death. I think the whole issue in Missouri is an issue of race that has reached a boiling point. the events in this country from the killings in Florida to the killings in Missouri have lit a powder keg. What happens when the young men of color start shooting at the Police because they are in fear for their lives. We as a nation have set in motion a
cause and effect action that can go either way. Either sanity prevails or anarchy becomes the action of the day. The law has to come down on officer Wilson, if not for the shooting for his responses afterwards. he presents himself as unsuitable to wear the uniform of a Police officer.
Bruce,
What proof is there that Wilson was running away? I’ve seen one report citing unnamed “law enforcement officials” saying Wilson initially shot at Brown as he was running away, but the autopsy shows he at least wasn’t hit in the back.
And nobody is claiming the robbery was a “shooting offense”. That’s a ridiculous statement. Is there any such thing as a “shooting offense”? If I’m arresting someone who murdered a child, am I allowed to shoot him because his crime was so bad? Nope, that’s not how it works. Our use of force is in response to the suspect’s resistance. If I stop someone for expired registration and he runs at me with a knife, I’ll shoot him for running at me with a knife, not for expired registration. If I arrest a murderer who doesn’t resist, I don’t use force to arrest them (been there done that). Your “robbery isn’t a shooting offense” statement is literally meaningless, no different than the “he was shot in broad daylight, in his own hometown” nonsense that reporters keep spouting.
Two things: sure, it’s likely that Brown’s friends are lying, at least in part, or remembering the truth in a particular way (a la Rashamon). But the cops in this case have clearly been lying, too, which is what cops, and most government officials, routinely do, because they can. In most cases their lies, abuses, mistakes, and uses of excessive force target people with very little power- poor people, mostly, especially, but not exclusively, minorities. Most of these people aren’t saints, unsurprisingly, and even if they were it’s a whole lot easier to have your side of things suppressed or ignored when you’re poor and can’t afford decent legal aid or publicity. When a cop, or some other official, armed or otherwise, decides to screw you over, or makes a mistake (it’s a tough, rather awful job- mistakes happen), there’s not a lot you can do unless you have some sort of pull, be it social or economic or political. Even most unjustified police shootings go largely unpublicized. In the Ferguson case, things lined up just right that the situation exploded, it couldn’t be kept quiet.
But there’s a much larger issue at play here, one which makes the entire question of ‘what really happened’ ultimately irrelevant: the fact remains that, one, many Americans, especially poor and or minority Americans, view people like you as an occupying force, or at least as glorified tax-collectors. I tend to take the latter view, as most of my encounters with your ilk have been thinly-disguised extortion rackets. But I’m white; I’ve never been stopped in the street for a pat-down; my ancestors didn’t have to worry about the sheriff’s boys showing up for a lynching; and when it comes down to it, cops and soldiers have generally, on this continent at least, backed up our larger class and racial interests. The violence of cops, soldiers, mobs, and suit-wearing legislators has given me, as a Southern white man, a distinct advantage over my darker skinned brethren. But I digress, somewhat. While I may not enjoy interactions with police, it’s only because I don’t enjoy being fleeced. I don’t worry that if I’m not ‘cooperative’ I’m going to get shot in the head. I don’t worry that the cops are going to show up and bust in my door and flash-bang my pets (though maybe I should…). I don’t worry that I’m going to get picked up randomly by the boys in blue, have the shit beaten out of me, and get a bill for the blood stains on their uniforms.
Even further: I don’t live on the frontlines of the drug war (or any other American-sponsored war of late); I don’t have to worry that any future children I might have are going to end up gang members for want of anything better. I don’t hear gunshots every night; I don’t fear dying in a hail of random bullets over a drug-deal gone south. And so on. I realize that you as a cop are not responsible tor the laws you enforce, which is why I generally don’t feel any great hostility towards cops, not on reflection anyway. I don’t even really blame cops for the systemic racism they help to perpetuate, and doubt that most have any great hostility for non-whites. But… I would hope that more cops would understand what sorts of things they are helping to perpetuate through their following of orders- and some have, and do. I would hope that they could understand why a lot people dislike them, and do not trust them- even if there is only so much they can do to change that, given that policy is ultimately not in their hands.
Jonathan,
We’ve had very different life experiences. While I also have never been stopped and searched by a cop, even though I’m an “oppressed minority”, as a cop I’ve stopped, searched and arrested a lot of white guys. I can agree that too much of what we do falls under the realm of tax collection, and we shouldn’t do it. However, I haven’t seen the pervasive oppression of minorities you seem to be describing. I grew up as a southern Hispanic guy, and I don’t remember ever being afraid of the police.
As an unrelated side note, the only time I was ever scared of police was when I visited Macedonia during my Kosovo tour. The Macedonian civil war was going on at the time, and I was visiting an Albanian friend. As My friend, his brother and I were walking from the town center back to their house, we ran into a Macedonian police patrol. The “police” were in all camo with body armor, chest rigs and AKs. When they saw us they immediately slowed down and stared hard at us. My friend had warned me, “If we run into any police don’t talk, because most of the police are Macedonian reservists who hate Americans, and they’re usually drunk.” That’s been the one time I thought I was going to get jacked with and maybe beaten by police, but fortunately they let us go about our business.
You have made it to FaceBook, congratulations, I think.
In a different context of people shouting at each other I had this to add. I repeat it here solely because of what your comment stream reveals. People are not interested in the details of the legal issues. They are interested in the emotional issue. I draw a parrallel to the Boston Massacre only as most Americans have been taught about it, and from a slightly slanted viewpoint. The Revolution was necessary no matter how correct shooting at a rioting crowd was.
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It’s an article that is clear about it’s prejudices. The final stand of the author (the author’s “not enough information guess” is innocence, but if murder is shown then let the hammer fall!) is clear and quite moderate. However the author doesn’t grapple with (nor to his credit was it his intent to ) the emotional firestorm. Take a historical parallel. The soldiers involved in The Boston Massacre were acquitted by a court of inquiry and modern reconstructions support that acquittal! The shooting was not a great idea but on the ground at the time it was not criminal. That didn’t matter it was still the match to the fuse of the American Revolution. A correct court decision did not prevent the American Revolution – it accelerated it. For a town to erupt in a fury, Boston or Ferguson, is proof, all by itself, of something terribly wrong. The question now is not just prejudice – I’m sure all involved deny prejudice – and if put on a lie detector they would be found to be telling what they thought was the truth – but what has gone wrong institutionally to create the air of armed occupation of a subject and dangerous population. Prejudice is individual; there are racists in the Armed Services of the USA, some high ranking. Yet the Armed Services of the USA still are the best example of an institutionally colorblind system that we have. A model for what we can be as a society. The question, which will not be settled in a comments section, is ” What did Ferguson do that was supposedly “reasonable” that actually created this situation where the majority of a small city found themselves the occupied and oppressed?”. When we can get various people to look into that then we can begin to make progress. My apologies for writing too much.
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I spent almost 30 years as a prosecutor. I don’t know if this is a “good shoot” or not I suspect it’s a bad shoot – but I don’t know – and if a bad shoot if it’s a civil law suit (bad shoot but not criminal), or a manslaughter or a murder. I too do not have enough EVIDENCE. Something far too many commentators seem to have forgotten.
Thanks for the article. Thanks for your thoughtfulness. Thanks for grappling with something that is impossible to grapple with.
You have been an occupying soldier in a combat zone. You have been a foreign policeman in Kosovo. You have been a policeman within your own community. The name you bear would bring prejudice in some of these United States. I think you have a lot to say about the relationship between the policed and those doing the policing. Your experience in how that changed for you from policing your neighbors (even the crooks) to the wonderful peoples of Kosovo (trying to kill each other) to the population in Afghanistan and Iraq where those who wanted to kill you looked just like everybody else who just wanted to survive and make a little money.
I encourage you to write about that. If you feel qualified to write about it in the context of Ferguson then please do so.
Mcuerc,
I’ll consider writing that, thanks. I’ve thought about writing an essay on how to start mending the rift between police and the public. The first steps are, I think, end the drug war and lose most of the military equipment. However, if I write that essay, it will be completely anecdotal and opinion based. I don’t know how much that would be worth.
I agree with you that the actual shooting has pretty much fallen by the wayside in this debate. The discussion is all about racism, police abuses and militaristic police culture. My problem with that is, we don’t know yet if this shooting was emblematic of any of those. And we won’t know until the investigation is complete.
Please email me, I’d like to discuss the opinion piece you’re suggesting I write. And might I ask, where is that quote from?
Anyone who thinks this murder is justified is sadistic and sick in the head.
And anyone who’s already decided it was a murder isn’t interested in evidence or facts.
I stopped reading when the writer said the following
But you know what’s more likely? Wilson simply ordered Brown and his friend to get out of the street, then realized they were robbery suspects and tried to stop them. Instead of complying, Brown shoved Wilson back into his vehicle, punched him (and maybe broke his eye socket), then ran away after Wilson fired a shot.
the eye socket story has been thoroughly debunked. The author says thats what he THINKS happened. Where is getting his info from? debunked right wing outrage machines? Hasn’t he read the stories that totally shredded this stories credibility? The fact that he references it tells me doesn’t know and doesn’t care. He would argue that he’s being open minded. No, he’s being closed minded.
as to the rest of his article, he says things like “sometimes tazers and batons and so forth don’t work” soooo…. whats your point? we shouldn’t use them? How do other countries go without killnig a single suspect all year and we can’t go a day without it happen somewhere in America? He says cops are trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized. Funny, I thought they were trained to take steps to take nonlethal steps to neutralize an enemy before going for lethal solutions. Either he wasn’t trained properly or he’s not being honest about his training. At least I hope so. because Im not comfortable living in a society where the cops first thought is “shoot to kill” to any and all threats.
The only debunking of the eye socket story I’m aware of is that Don Lemon cited an unnamed source who said Wilson didn’t have a broken eye socket. All I know is, one unnamed source says he does, the other says he doesn’t. Where is the evidence that it was fabricated, rather than simply being unconfirmed?
Regarding your point on Tasers and batons: no, I didn’t say we shouldn’t use them. But the public should understand they’re not magical light sabers that always give us an option other than deadly force. They very often fail, and in lethal force encounters we have seconds to decide what weapon to employ; if I truly believe I’m about to be beaten to death, and I know spray, Tasers and batons often fail, I will likely go to my gun instead.
As far as other countries, I couldn’t tell you. What I can tell you is that our first thought isn’t “shoot to kill”, and no police department had a “shoot to kill” policy.
I’ve read post after post after response after response, and you people are so freaking stupid. Let me tell you what happened there, and I know because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night…..
And to Chris Hernandez… Thank you Brother.
Thanks Michael, I appreciate that.
First that was well written and concise, you validated your points well. Whether you responded immediatley or waited, you are biased. I think you tried to weigh things fair as possible. Individual scenarios are debatable. I think vets should be allowed to walk on water and I want a cop when shit hits the fan. Making lethal force decisions is hard. Your damned if you do , damned if you don’t. The point that you don’t speak of is the fact that the statistics bear out that blacks are targeted and incarcerated more than any group. considering we are 20% of populace there must be an oversite with regards to white, asian,spanish et al… What you don’t speak of is the overwhelming numbers of unarmed young blacks that wind up deadf for minor offenses. While a 6’4” 290lbs man definitley is a considerable threat. Not all of these killings are done to behemoths. The small framed man in calif. Amadou Diallo and the list can go on. Being a law officer you have to weigh justice and be honest with yourself at the end of the day. The facts are Blacks are approaced/arrested with a far more violent outcome. The point that nullifies your piece is that you undeniably overlook the longstanding history and lack of restraint when a black is involved. That why urban blacks grow up distrusting cops and white kids think they are their friends. On your behalf, the use of intermediary actions may be riskie but are necessary. Story recently of 87 year old woman 90lbs approached officer and suposedly had a knife. She was thrown down and her head was cracked open (90lbs) no tazer no mace.. Emmy winning producer harrased and accused of crime only because he was the only black there . Man was sitting in public mall, supposedly waiting to p/up kids. spoke clearly and politley was walking away because he was asaked to move and a b/up officer (after3 to 4 minutes of talking with the first officer) stepped in and violently arrested the man for no reason. Then there is the man a year ago in Ferguson who after being beat by officers, perhaps a crime was commited to be fair to the officers, but then they sued him for getting blood on their uniformes. WE ARE TIRED OF BEING MISTREATED AND KILLED. You speak of the justification of force, but no justrification about rogue cops who take out their frustrations on the public. The racist attitude that invariably developes when an all white force goes against any minority group. You may treat people correctly but many officers do not. they know their word will be taken over someone who was arrested and asd history has proven 9 times out of ten if they kill they will be exonerated. Keep it real and we could get somewhere.
John,
I hear you, but my point wasn’t to address everything wrong with the criminal justice system or police. I was writing about this specific incident, and deconstructing the most commonly used reasons to proclaim the shooting could not have been justified. I’ve never claimed all cops are perfect; in fact, in the comments I’ve stated I’ve worked with three cops who wound up being charged with rape while on duty, and two of them went to prison because they were guilty. I also haven’t defended every police shooting. There are some that were flat-out wrong.
If you want me to “keep it real”, I’d ask you to do the same thing. I’ve tried to stay away from the racial aspect of this, but if we’re going to talk about mistreatment of blacks by police, shouldn’t we also talk about black mistreatment of other blacks? Young black males are being murdered at an astronomical rate, and 90% of those murders are by other blacks. Chicago doesn’t have an insane murder rate because white cops are going into black neighborhoods and killing people, it’s because the residents of those neighborhoods are killing each other. You say you’re “tired of being mistreated and killed”, so where is the outrage over the endless flow of young black males murdered by other blacks? That accounts for the vast majority of the killings. I’ve seen it with my own eyes as a cop.
John, without a doubt you bring up some good and equally valid points, but I would like to comment on a few of your points. First,if you think that the blacks (African Americans,so I don’t get yelled at for not being politically correct) are only 20% of the populace,you might need to go back and check your numbers.
Second, I will agree with you that there does seem to be a larger number of the blacks going to jail, however, that might be in part because our black communities are committing a larger part of the crimes, and that is not a racially motivated comment, but one made based on the media output. Not sure where you are from, but in the St. Louis area,that is all you hear about from the media, blacks killing blacks every single day in drive by shootings, outside of businesses, etc. Now, I feel pretty confident that if the media would report the news equally we would see that more crimes are being committed by whites and other groups as well, but that doesn’t inflame the public so it is not heard as much. Also, I agree that there is too much over reaction by law enforcement on what seems to be very minor issues, but I think it would be more fair and correct if we didn’t group all law enforcement or even a big number of them into that group, but instead realize and admit that these actions are committed by a very few number of officers and are usually blown way out of proportion by the media who generally will only report the incidents that involve the black community.
Third, in defense of law enforcement, (and I can give you a website to follow if interested) there are law enforcement officers being killed nearly every day by individuals, some for very minor issues, so it isn’t difficult to understand how some officers have short fuses. Those that don’t have short fuses are all too often the ones that are being killed. That does not give them the right to mistreat citizens and is not offered as an excuse, but is just an observation.
Fourth, as to your comments relating to events that have happened in the past, I’m sure we could all pull stories that we can use to make our point either way, as with your story of the 87 year old, 90 lb women with a knife thrown down and her head was cracked open and no other devices used. If you know anything about knives, they are very dangerous, with this situation if I use a tazer, chances are she has a heart attack and dies and the media only reports “Officer tazers 87 year old grandmother to death”. If I use pepper spray, then it’s reported “Officer blinds 87 year old grandmother with pepper spray”, Law Enforcement will never win in any situation because we won’t let them, they are always the aggressor. Personally, if I was a cop and you came at me with a knife with the intent to inflict great bodily harm or death on me, you would be lucky I didn’t shoot you.
Blacks are about 14 to 16% of the total population of United States.
Here’s how I see it: we have courts and juries to decide the facts as presented and then render judgement on if there was wrong doing on the part of Mr. Brown or Mr. Wilson. As a citizen, I’m reserving judgement on the case until such evidence is publicly known. I’m also fully aware that police work is extremely difficult and split second decisions have to be made.
However, all the arguments I see is that you have one camp giving evidence that Mr. Brown was innocent of any actions that lead to the shooting and others, like the author of this piece, giving ideas and conjecture on the actions of Mr. Wilson.
But, the problem in Ferguson is in fact not that a police officer killed someone; this happens often around the nation. Sometimes with acceptable reasons, sometimes as overreactions. No, the problem is that the people of Ferguson, for one reason or another, have lost faith in the authority of the police.
The police can only effectively do their jobs when the people they are serving and protecting trust in their intentions. Then, when incidents like this occur, trust can be put into the justice system to work out the details. Ferguson PD has a history of being a poorly run department and was even disbanded several years ago to be rebuilt. It’s hard to imagine any community who believes so little in the police to trust anything they do and to see corruption or wrong doing even when the PD’s best intentions are at play.
What the people of Ferguson truly need to rebuild their community and state of mind is a strong local government, looking out for the people and working to get the community and the police working together again. When neither side trusts each other to the point of violence, it will never matter who did what in this situation.
When people cry foul, it’s more often for a reason. Ferguson needs leadership and dialogue, not to be treated like a rebelling force.
thank you for posting this i think these people of need to wake up to reality and stop crying about cops be4ing racist. every time they do something wrong and police catch them they say it cause cops are racist. heres a thought maybe cops coming after them because they have commited a crime
I just don’t understand why COPS don’t LEARN or are not TAUGHT to shoot in another way instead of shoot to KILL…….A lot of the things people get so angry about is these people that are dying should not be killed for their actions…Punished yes most definitely but not killed!!! Can we not shoot in legs or arms or anywhere else to not just shoot to kill them? I understand
that being a police officer is a very dangerous job and I am so thankful we have those brave men and women that choose it as a profession but a little bit of common since should go into play in certain situations!!!!!
Carmen,
This has been addressed elsewhere in the comments. Shooting in the arms or legs is extremely difficult under stress and isn’t likely to disable a suspect.
Sadly Carmen you have watched too many movies and TV. Limbs are too small to shoot especially as they move and they don’t necessarily eliminate the threat. The body however is a larger target and police are taught to shoot centre mass and are also taught to shoot until the threat is eliminated. When a police officer draws his gun and shoots it is never going to be pretty and most likely will end in death; not always though as many people have recovered from multiple gun shots even to the head. Also understand there may only be seconds to make a decision and that is a decision that the police officer has to live with; right or wrong it will effect him mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually and possibly financially. You mentioned people that are dying should not be killed for their actions and that they should be punished not killed. The police do not punish people nor do they normally just go and kill people because of a crime. We are all responsible for our own actions and actions sometimes dictate the outcome. We choose that outcome. We can choose to comply or not and if we choose not to comply and use aggression or make ourselves a threat then we must realize that we may not like the end result. This whole incident is sad and blown out of proportion. People are prejudging based on poor media and racists like Al Sharpton who have their own agenda and really couldn’t care a less of what happened. This did not have to be about race. Nobody cared when the black police officer killed the white unarmed male shortly after this because it didn’t have the backers like this incident. Nobody cared about the multiple black males being killed by other black males. Nope, this is about personally agendas and what sells. If the officer did commit murder then he should be charged and be punished. If the officer is found not guilty and the actions of Brown are found criminal and the shooting justified then this needs to be accepted … but it won’t and the media and Sharpton will spin this to their benefit creating a greater rift. I will wait to make any judgement based on fact no heresay or emotion. I think the officer and Brown both need to be given the same respect and let justice prevail.